WIDGET help

Too late for that, Grant. It is already built. Both driven devices are on-line all of the time. I just want to be able to quickly take one device off-line while the other is still working or, shut the unit down and then loosen the belt on the unnecessary generator.

I don't like the idea either but if no real gotchas, I will implement it. I am not too worried about belt wear or danger as it will be started and left alone until not needed.

Seems like I have seen this idea on tillers, go carts and other machines.

Btw, this is a portable unit.

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:23:49 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:

Quoted: How about if you rearrange things such that the motor is on one side Quoted: and on the other side is a plate that you can take loose and rotate. Quoted: To swap from generator to alternator you'd then take the plate loose, Quoted: then rotate the plate 180° (the driven pulley would go towards the motor Quoted: so you could easily remove the belt) then reconnect the belt to the pulley Quoted: on the alternator and snug down the plate. I saw an idea like this once in Quoted: a Popular Mechanics. I don't like having a belt in place but not running, Quoted: though. Rotating belts can be more dangerous than you think. - GWE Quoted: Quoted: snipped-for-privacy@widget.com wrote: Quoted: Quoted: > I am building a widget consisting of a 5.5 h.p. lawnmower engine Quoted: > in the center of a 36" x 12" x 3/8" aluminum plate. Quoted: > On either end are a 3 kw.120 v.a.c. generator Quoted: > and a Leece-Neville 140 amp. 14 volt alternator. Quoted: > Quoted: > This contraption will be driven by b-sized, v belts. Quoted: > What I wish is to have the ability to drive both Quoted: > simultaneously or each independently. Quoted: > Quoted: > So, is it practical to engage the one that I want to drive Quoted: > with an idler pulley and on the UN-driven one release the Quoted: > tension on its idler pulley? Quoted: > Quoted: > What I am asking is that is it practical to have a v belt Quoted: > that is not being used, to just be very loose in the pulley Quoted: > grooves while not being used?

Also, Grant, I want to be able to run them simultaneously, should I choose.

Yours is a good idea, though.

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:23:49 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:

Quoted: How about if you rearrange things such that the motor is on one side Quoted: and on the other side is a plate that you can take loose and rotate. Quoted: To swap from generator to alternator you'd then take the plate loose, Quoted: then rotate the plate 180° (the driven pulley would go towards the motor Quoted: so you could easily remove the belt) then reconnect the belt to the pulley Quoted: on the alternator and snug down the plate. I saw an idea like this once in Quoted: a Popular Mechanics. I don't like having a belt in place but not running, Quoted: though. Rotating belts can be more dangerous than you think. - GWE Quoted: Quoted: snipped-for-privacy@widget.com wrote: Quoted: Quoted: > I am building a widget consisting of a 5.5 h.p. lawnmower engine Quoted: > in the center of a 36" x 12" x 3/8" aluminum plate. Quoted: > On either end are a 3 kw.120 v.a.c. generator Quoted: > and a Leece-Neville 140 amp. 14 volt alternator. Quoted: > Quoted: > This contraption will be driven by b-sized, v belts. Quoted: > What I wish is to have the ability to drive both Quoted: > simultaneously or each independently. Quoted: > Quoted: > So, is it practical to engage the one that I want to drive Quoted: > with an idler pulley and on the UN-driven one release the Quoted: > tension on its idler pulley? Quoted: > Quoted: > What I am asking is that is it practical to have a v belt Quoted: > that is not being used, to just be very loose in the pulley Quoted: > grooves while not being used?

The slickest way to do it would be with a couple of electric clutches salvaged off of automobile AC compressors and mounted on the two driven devices....just a thought

I like your idea, Bob. I had thought of it, too. However, there are several problems:

1. Weight - this is a portable unit and besides the weight of the clutches, there would have to be a battery - additional weight.

1. This will be an emergency unit and has to start without a battery that may be dead when needed.

2. Eventually, I may put an electric start option on it and that, of course, would require a battery with it's weight and the weight of the starter. In addition to the clutches, it would be too heavy. Still, the unit would need to able to be started in the event the battery is dead.

Thanks for your input.

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 14:34:15 -0500, Bob Robinson wrote:

Quoted: snipped-for-privacy@widget.com wrote: Quoted: > Too late for that, Grant. It is already built. Both driven devices Quoted: > are on-line all of the time. I just want to be able to quickly take Quoted: > one device off-line while the other is still working or, shut the unit Quoted: > down and then loosen the belt on the unnecessary generator. Quoted: > Quoted: > I don't like the idea either but if no real gotchas, I will implement Quoted: > it. I am not too worried about belt wear or danger as it will be Quoted: > started and left alone until not needed. Quoted: > Quoted: > Seems like I have seen this idea on tillers, go carts and other Quoted: > machines. Quoted: > Quoted: > Btw, this is a portable unit. Quoted: > Quoted: > On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:23:49 -0700, Grant Erwin Quoted: > wrote: Quoted: > Quoted: > Quoted: How about if you rearrange things such that the motor is on Quoted: > one side Quoted: > Quoted: and on the other side is a plate that you can take loose and Quoted: > rotate. Quoted: > Quoted: To swap from generator to alternator you'd then take the plate Quoted: > loose, Quoted: > Quoted: then rotate the plate 180° (the driven pulley would go towards Quoted: > the motor Quoted: > Quoted: so you could easily remove the belt) then reconnect the belt Quoted: > to the pulley Quoted: > Quoted: on the alternator and snug down the plate. I saw an idea like Quoted: > this once in Quoted: > Quoted: a Popular Mechanics. I don't like having a belt in place but Quoted: > not running, Quoted: > Quoted: though. Rotating belts can be more dangerous than you think. - Quoted: > GWE Quoted: > Quoted: Quoted: > Quoted: snipped-for-privacy@widget.com wrote: Quoted: > Quoted: Quoted: > Quoted: > I am building a widget consisting of a 5.5 h.p. lawnmower Quoted: > engine Quoted: > Quoted: > in the center of a 36" x 12" x 3/8" aluminum plate. Quoted: > Quoted: > On either end are a 3 kw.120 v.a.c. generator Quoted: > Quoted: > and a Leece-Neville 140 amp. 14 volt alternator. Quoted: > Quoted: > Quoted: > Quoted: > This contraption will be driven by b-sized, v belts. Quoted: > Quoted: > What I wish is to have the ability to drive both Quoted: > Quoted: > simultaneously or each independently. Quoted: > Quoted: > Quoted: > Quoted: > So, is it practical to engage the one that I want to drive Quoted: > Quoted: > with an idler pulley and on the UN-driven one release the Quoted: > Quoted: > tension on its idler pulley? Quoted: > Quoted: > Quoted: > Quoted: > What I am asking is that is it practical to have a v belt Quoted: > Quoted: > that is not being used, to just be very loose in the pulley Quoted: > Quoted: > grooves while not being used? Quoted: > Quoted: The slickest way to do it would be with a couple of electric clutches Quoted: salvaged off of automobile AC compressors and mounted on the two driven Quoted: devices....just a thought

Lawnmowers certainly do this. The PTO "clutch" on my Bolens works this way. They have two sheaves, on on the engine, one on the PTO shaft, and a tension roller that runs against the back of the belt to engage it.

It may take some amount of fiddling around to keep the belt from occasionally jumping off the pulleys.

Jon

Is that enough horsepower to drive these devices?

I don't know if this would help you or not but have you thought about electromagnetic clutches for V belts.

If that link does not work type clutch in the search area of the following website

That is what I currently have, a tension roller on both devices. There is nothing wrong with running both at the same time except for being a waste if I am not using both.

I will go ahead and configure the tensioners on a pivot point and rest easy.

Thanks for your comments.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: snipped-for-privacy@widget.com wrote: Quoted: Quoted: >I am building a widget consisting of a 5.5 h.p. lawnmower engine Quoted: >in the center of a 36" x 12" x 3/8" aluminum plate. Quoted: >On either end are a 3 kw.120 v.a.c. generator Quoted: >and a Leece-Neville 140 amp. 14 volt alternator. Quoted: >

Quoted: >This contraption will be driven by b-sized, v belts. Quoted: >What I wish is to have the ability to drive both Quoted: >simultaneously or each independently. Quoted: >

Quoted: >So, is it practical to engage the one that I want to drive Quoted: >with an idler pulley and on the UN-driven one release the Quoted: >tension on its idler pulley? Quoted: >

Quoted: >What I am asking is that is it practical to have a v belt Quoted: >that is not being used, to just be very loose in the pulley Quoted: >grooves while not being used? Quoted: > Quoted: >

Quoted: Lawnmowers certainly do this. The PTO "clutch" on my Quoted: Bolens works this way. They have two sheaves, on on the engine, Quoted: one on the PTO shaft, and a tension roller that runs against the back Quoted: of the belt to engage it. Quoted: Quoted: It may take some amount of fiddling around to keep the belt Quoted: from occasionally jumping off the pulleys. Quoted: Quoted: Jon

Not to run both at full tilt, Steve.

However, both should be able to run simultaneously on medium load.

Quoted: Quoted:

See my reply to Bob Robinson.

Thanks

Quoted: > This contraption will be driven by b-sized, v belts. Quoted: > What I wish is to have the ability to drive both Quoted: > simultaneously or each independently. Quoted: >

Quoted: > So, is it practical to engage the one that I want to drive Quoted: > with an idler pulley and on the UN-driven one release the Quoted: > tension on its idler pulley? Quoted: >

Quoted: > What I am asking is that is it practical to have a v belt Quoted: > that is not being used, to just be very loose in the pulley Quoted: > grooves while not being used? Quoted: >

Quoted: >

Quoted: > Thanks Quoted:

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 17:32:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@widget.com calmly ranted:

I'd go with a sliding gear which could be selected to engage one or the other generator before you started the engine. Y'know, a simple type of transmichigan.

That or have the generators (or idlers which drive them) slide into mesh with a perimeter toothed belt.

No, but if you don't care about needing to replace the belt (since it wore out from friction-rubbing on the pulley while it wasn't being engaged) almost every time you want to switch to the other generator, it won't be a problem. ;)

------------------------------------------------------- "i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society. ----

Dynamic Website Applications

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 19:13:43 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@widget.com calmly ranted:

Then the sliding gensets or electric clutches seem better for your application, Allen.

------------------------------------------------------- "i" before "e", except after "c", what a weird society. ----

Dynamic Website Applications

One option would be to just drive both devices at all times. If you're not drawing any current from one, the only load that it will put on the engine and drive will be that of friction. You might find that idler pulleys and slipping belts would be worse.

John Martin

Sure thing, that's the way most riding lawnmowers handle the belt drive to the blades. Works fine, lasts long time.

But that isn't what I'd do. I'd keep both belted up tight so the load on the shaft bearing is balanced. Then I'd simply *electricially* connect or disconnect the loads asssociated with the AC or DC alternators as needed. When unloaded, they won't produce enough windage and bearing drag to be a problem, so there's no real need to mechanically disconnect them.

Gary

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:08:42 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net (Gary Coffman) calmly ranted:

But that's a very temporary solution. It's not meant to be used as a standard running procedure just as automobile clutches aren't meant to be feathered constantly. Mowers are meant to be run with the blades turning, so slipping the belt is used only for short disengagement periods.

Yeah, a pair of electric clutches would be the ideal fix.

How about a single belt that can be swapped quickly from one accessory to the other. You could put a tensioning device (spring-loaded pulley) on each side.

Release the tension, swap belt, retension, etc.

Have a good one, tHAT