# Driving a vertical shaft

• posted

How do you drive a vertical shaft with a horizontal motor mount?

I understand mitre gear, spiral gear and a worm drive. Is there another way? I have been looking through several texts and am not having much luck. Is there a way to do it with a chain? I cannot see a V-belt doing it. Some sort of friction drive instead of gears? But how good is the power transmission in such case?

Thanks,

• posted

You mean a roller chain? I don't think so.

I can:

1) Pulley on shaft of motor.

2) un the belt up some distance -- how far depends on the width of the belt, and thus how easy it is to twist.

3) Set two idler pulleys at about a 45 degree angle to both the motor shaft and the vertical shaft. Bend the belt over the idler pulleys to a pulley up at the right height on the vertical shaft.

or:

Put the motor some distance away from the shaft, and twist the V-belt through 90 degrees. This takes more distance. The shorter the belt, the faster it will die.

Not very. Not as good as the V-belts would be above. Flat leather belts could handle the twist more easily than the V-belts, but the pulleys would be larger.

Good Luck, DoN.

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I have seen V belt drives twisted to change the axis 90 degrees - might have been on an old big mower. Others here will know. I imaging the rotation may limit speed & power.

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All this reminds me of the Corvair.

Erik

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Google v-belt "quarter turn drives" and you'll find how to design such a belt drive. For example:

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Belts do it all of the time.

Consider the old time drill press.

The spindle is verticle to the ground. So the pulley runs in the plane of the floor, but elevated to the top of the drill press.

The motor is mounted on a plate on the floor or below the head of the drill press. It is a horizontal (normal mounting) with a cone facing the user with the axis perpendicular to that of the post or spindle.

In the back are re-direction pulleys that take the loop from the top cone horz back and over the re-direction pulley - down to the motor cone, around and back up over a second re-direction pulley on the way back to the top cone.

The belt is a L shape and the belt is round or 4 sided.

Here is a concept:

Martin

Mart> How do you drive a vertical shaft with a horizontal motor mount? >

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• posted

Could it be done with chain? Yes, BUT not easily you would have to use multiple stages with each chain twisted a bit.

VERY common to see V belts for this. In fact about 50% of the lawn and garden tractors use this method of power division. EVERY Cub Cadet made until about 1997 used this method to power the mower decks, tillers and other attachments. Very simple to twist the belt to different orientations.

Friction drive is also common. Many snow blowers use a friction disc and platen to provide variable speed drive. The problem with friction drive is that it likes to slip.

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. Is

I do not know where you would get chain pulleys, but it could be done with ordinary chain. One driving pulley, one driven pulley, and two idler pulleys.

What speed are you wanting and how much power?

Dan

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And that system works well. But there are tricks you need to know before finding out the hard way: Wrapped belts, and a special belt profile are necessary - NOT the usual 3L belts, it's a deeper vee angle. If you run standard 3L belts they'll fling and/or snap regularly, get the proper repro belt and it'll last for years.

Been there...

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. Is

I do not know where you would get chain pulleys, but(clip) it could be done with ordinary chain. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You must mean "ordinary" like tow chain or anchor chain--certainly not roller chain.

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You cannot see a V-belt doing it because they prefer to do it in dark places like under riding mowers.

On my Sears garden tractor the 18HP engine is mounted like in a small airplane, two opposed cylinders (even-numbered radial?) with the crankshaft extending out the front and rear. A pulley on the rear shaft drives the wheels, one on the front turns the mower blade, or currently the hydraulic pump.

Both front and rear vee belts drop down to vee idler pulleys that redirect the belts to the rear. The belts twist a quarter turn between the drive and idler pulleys.

The mower belt then turns the vertical shaft of the primary quill in the mower housing, i.e. spins the blade. The drive belt makes another quarter twist to the pulley on the rear wheel transmission, which is on a shaft parallel to the rear axle. These are B size belts nominally handling up to 18HP although in practice the rear tires will slip with the engine at idle, and that is with tire chains, 120 Lbs of extra steel in the back plus me on the seat and a trailer with all the weight in the front to load the tongue.

There are lots of useful components on scrapped riding mowers including right-angled reduction drives and differentials. They show you how little you can get away with when designing shafts and bearings that are easy to fabricate and don't have to last as long as industrial ones. Often the control shafts simply run in stamped holes in the sheet metal frame. Examining them and cheap floor jacks showed me that unhardened roller bearings made from pipe and welding rod are practical.

Jim Wilkins

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There are special "3-D" chains that can do this. Belts are easy. See if you can find a picture of a Corvair engine, the fan was run by a right-angle belt drive. The generator was one of the pivot pulleys, the other was an idler. Try this, if hand-held cameras don't make you dizzy:

Jon

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Or ball chain. McMaster lists it in sizes up to 1/2"...you'd still have to make up your own pulleys.

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Continental have a number of design guides available. I have used the poly V belt guide for a design and it gives details of 90 degree drive considerations at the end of the guide

.

You might also look here for the wider range of belts and their details to see if the give recommendations for 90 degree drive service

.

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Interesting. Described as used to "... keep tools with machines, keys with chucks, as well as gas and dust caps with tanks." But with a tensile strength of up to 200lbs, maybe it could be used for power transmission. Question of how long the connections would last with constant flexing under load.

Bob

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