I have just got the acceptance for my subscription to MyMyford on th Yahoo groups, and have downloaded the manual. I have also got the spar parts list and prices from Myford.
By the way I'm not a medical doctor, more engineering / materials (al of which counts for little compared with the experience of the foru members on here, especially when evaluating a lathe!)
Well, I?ve gone and done it. I bought the lathe last night, and got i home at midnight. Attached photos show the main bits. Not shown is th tray, home made stand and a couple of drawers which contained a set o Britool & King Dick spanners etc.
Superb people to deal with, but the circumstances leading to the sal were absolutely tragic. I had very mixed feelings when removing it fro the previous owner?s workshop, watched by his son in law and grandson The gentleman?s wife showed me some of the superb work done by her lat husband using the lathe, and I felt totally inadequate knowing that i will be many, many years, if ever, that I will be able to turn out suc work. Even though I really want a lathe, in this case I would gladly g without, if it would change the circumstances of its sale. Sill thoughts maybe, but at least it is going to a good home rather tha some dealer.
The lathe was initially advertised on EBay (#320094482656), but after couple of calls, it was agreed I could view it and have first refusal The specified starting bid was £600 (no bids). If anyone is intereste in what I ended up paying, contact me offline. It?s just that i somehow doesn?t seem right to broadcast it over the internet afte private negotiations with some very sound people. I?d say I paid a ver fair price for something that is after all a fairly unknown quantity The price negotiations were done with a friend of the gentleman? family who is a skilled model engineer himself, so knows the value o these things.
This morning, first thing was to ?phone Myford with the serial numbe (K 74315). The build date was, as correctly guessed here, 1966. Januar to be more precise. After reading the manual, and some offline advice o modern equivalents, I also located a local supplier of HYDEX 3 Hydraulic oil, and SLIDEX CGLP 68 slideway lubricant (I got 5 litres o each for £20). This is from a manufacturer called Petro-Canada.
The belts are a bit tatty, so I tried to get from BSL, but I?m a bi confused. The manual doesn?t give widths or depths, just an inne length. The motor belt is a smaller section than the other one (th adjustable one), which seems a better fit to me. BSL can only suppl the right length belts in the smaller section (which seems a bit to small to me) though. Any ideas? The belt tension lever actually touche the clutch lever when fully tensioned, which also suggests something i wrong with the belt spec. somewhere.
I have also bought a new sealed push on / push off switch to replac the suicidally wired original.
I think it will be good lathe ? as I said I don?t have much lath experience, but with all your help I at least established a few thing before putting in an offer:
There is a bit of wear in the bed. It tightens slightly at th tailstock end, but is still ?hand-crankable? all the way along. I did micrometer check along the distance too, but couldn?t find muc difference in thickness to be honest. The ways are not rusty at all, i fact they are incredibly bright. Some of the accessories are a bit rust though, and one of the chucks is discoloured. The photograph made i look worse.
The saddle crank feels a bit loose and sloppy. It is however secure tightly to its shaft. Maybe needs a new Oilite bush?
The motor is very quiet and smooth, and the clutch is like silk.
Due to the amount of swarf around, I daren?t remove the main bearin caps. I did however top up the oilers and run the lathe for about 2 minutes. I listened to the caps with a screwdriver and they were quie and cool. I tried the bar in the chuck and wobble test, and couldn? detect any play.
The pulley trunnions on the countershaft had an occasional ?knock when listening through a screwdriver. Sounded almost like a pulley o belt was catching something. As mentioned above, I?m not sure the belt are right.
The leadscrew seems loose to me. When the half nut is engaged ther is some initial vertical play. When engaged it runs smoothly enoug though. Comments?
I eventually plucked up enough courage to machine a piece of bar, an measured the diameters at each end, but I wasn?t thinking clearly enough at that point to make any rational judgement of the results (not used a lathe of any type for about 10 years, never mind someone else?s unfamiliar one, with their immediate family watching). I think I just said something like ?Hmmmm. Good?.
I have decided to give it a partial strip down and through clean and lube. I will not be painting it, with the exception of the tray, which is chipped and also the wrong colour. Maybe the region between the bed ways will get a coat too, since it is a yellow primer colour.
Any comments at all on how to proceed from here would be very much appreciated.
Thank you all very much for your help and prompt advice. I look forward to contributing to the forum in the future when I have gained enough knowledge to be of some use! Sorry for the long post.
I can recommend using linked belts like the Brammer T link or Powertwist, easy to get the length right, they're tougher than normal V belts and they run very quietly as well. You can replace the headstock belt without having to remove the spindle which is an obvious benefit. I'm using Powertwist on my ML7 (bought it from Chronos) and I wouldn't go back to standard belts. Martin
Given that it runs smoothly, and does not heat up or show signs of play, I'd be inclined to leave the bearing caps alone. Unless you are curious, anyway.
Clean it up and use it for a while before you tear it down. Some things you will notice that you do not like, can be dealt with at the time the rest of the work takes place.
If you were negotiating in good faith with another knowlegable individual, then you arrived at a fair price. Give it a good home.
You probably should see to a set of GH Thomas' books. Coupla decent add-on projects for the ML7 in there.
The molybdenum disulphide greases are quite good for lubricating the cross slide and top slide.
Good idea; I have been using my S7 for 20+ years with the archaic circuit breaker it came with, but I should have replaced it years ago. (In fact I am just about to do so, with a proper Myford NVR/overload protected push button starter.)
If the tightening is not causing a problem I would be inclined to leave it alone. If it is, a light stoning of the rear bearing surface might help, failing which a bed regrind would be required - there are several companies offering this service.
Do you mean the handwheel which moves the saddle along the bed, or the handle which moves the cross-slide? If the latter, I would check the fitting of the gib strips. To do this, you must remove the handle and feedscrew, and adjust the gib bearing screws so that moving the slide by hand is reasonably free and silky, but with no trace of side-to-side slop. Then replace the feedscrew - you must screw it all the way in before replacing the screws which hold the feed nut bracket, otherwise it might be slightly misaligned.
If you mean the wheel which moves the saddle along the bed, then mine has a little play, both lateral and rotational - not much, a mm or so and a few degrees. I have never thought this significant, it is just a rack and pinion for rapid movement of the saddle; when turning to length I always use the leadscrew handwheel for advancing the saddle. Good to see your ML7 has one, they are not standard on this, but are on the Super 7. (BTW, am I the only person who cannot understand why most other lathes do not have this as standard? I could not live with a lathe which didn't have one, traversing under power is all very well, but if you want to turn up to a shoulder, hand control is the only thing precise enough.)
Excellent.
Ditto.
Pass - the countershaft arrangement of the ML7 is quite different from that on my S7, so I am not familiar with it.
Hm, my leadscrew is pretty rock-solid in the vertical direction when engaged. However, handsome is as handsome does, and if it ain't broke ...
Well, even if you had some difference in the turned diameters at each end of the bar, it could well have been caused by the lathe bed being bolted down slightly out of true. Even a brand new high-spec lathe will turn taper if bolted down on the skew. In fact, one of the most important things you will need to do when you get the lathe home is to bolt it down very carefully, with shims under the feet (or better, some proper jacking blocks - they are commonly available on eBay) checking the bed alignment as you go. There are numerous books and articles on how to do this. A few "tenths" per foot would be the standard to aim for.
It does look a little "cosmetically challenged", though this will not affect performance in any way. The yellow colour in the bed gap is standard though, goodness knows why.
Buy the George Thomas books. IMO, these are by some margin the best handbooks I have found for the home engineer. The format is not, as you might expect, arranged by technique, but consists primarily of a large collection of tools and lathe enhancements, but in every case the important techniques are described and discussed. If you work through the books and make eve a quarter of the things in there, you will (a) have a much more versatile kit, and (b) be a much more accomplished machinist!
FYI, Hemingway Kits supply castings and materials for many of the items. Neil Hemingway was a close friend of GHT, and worked closely with him on these, and though the business has now been sold on (twice?) I am pleased to see that it still seems to uphold the same standards. I visited Neil at his home several times to buy kits back in the early
90s, nice chap. Anyone know if he is still around?
"Cosmetically challenged"? How dare you! She's a beauty! Well, she'l do!
The handwheel wear was on the large saddle wheel on the front of th apron. As you said I won't be using it for accurate work, but it feel wrong compared with the rest of the machine. Presumably replacing th two bushes in this gear train is fairly easy after removing the apron?
I just re-checked the leadscrew. There is a bit of play in th headstock end bush. When the the saddle split-nut is engaged, it i fairly solid however. There is a bit of axial movement too in th leadscrew. Will this be a big issue, or would you replace these bushe while I'm at it? They are not expensive from Myford, and presumabl they do not need reaming.
The blocks on the stand are not adjustable, just two solid lumps o steel with through holes. Can these still be used with some kind o adjustable pads on top, or would I be better off buying the ones yo suggested? Also, is it essential to bolt the frame to the floor, o will it be ok just resting there. The concrete floor is quite smoot since I ground it flat(ter) than the rough finish the builder left after building the house a couple of years ago.
I am awaiting a couple of reccomended lathe books at the moment. In th meantime I do have the original manual which is very helpful.
Never needed to try it. As I say, there is a few degrees of rotational slop in mine, but it's not used for measurements anyway.
Axial movement in the leadscrew sounds a little more significant. You will always get some backlash between the feedscrew and the half-nuts (unless you fit some expensive ballscrew kit) - mine is about 15 thou, probably on the high side, but really any backlash means you just have to take care to always feed in a consistent direction, usually towards the headstock. But I have no axial play in my feedscrew, at least none that can be felt or seen with the naked eye, and I think I would be a bit concerned if I had. Yes, I would try adjusting the bushes, or (if that does not work) replacing them. Incidentally, I had to remove, shorten and re-fit mine about 20 years ago on fitting a gearbox, but I can't remember what the instructions said about end float.
If hard up, you could make or adapt for yourself. The eBay ones are only about £25-30, a lot cheaper than Myford's (£95 IIRC). The Myford ones use a large hollow outer jacking screw threaded to fit in the block, with a smaller inner concentric stud passing right through it for holding down. Don't know if the cheaper ones are the same, guess they will be. If you can beg or borrow an engineer's level, you can get the stand level, and then use it to get the bed nearly right, but the final check has to be with a trial cut. (Without a level stand, of course, levelling the bed is meaningless.)
The stand resting on the concrete floor should be fine, if your stand is stable and there is no danger of knocking it over! Mine has been thus for >20 years with no problem, and it is a horrible home made welded angle iron job I got with it*. I am just in the process of replacing it with an industrial stand (actually a 254 stand) but that also will be resting on the floor (concrete, screeded, with thin plastic floor tiles FWIW). I will however be levelling the stand on its own jacking blocks first, mainly so that the stand will be level (see above). Just
1.5x2.0x1.0 blocks of steel, tapped for 1/2 BSW studding, with nuts above and below the stand feet. Needed anyway to bring the 254 stand to a decent height as on its own it is absurdly short.
BTW, if I had an ML7, I would be looking to replace the cross slide and top slide with the larger S7 ones. 360 degree movement of the S7 top slide is very useful, the ML7 one is restricted. There may be some cheaper DIY recipes for this if you look around.
Have fun!
David
It's due to go to the dump in a week or so - if anyone wants it, let me know - SE London area.
Let me clarify that last statement - on re-reading it, it looks as if I am saying that the bed must be level.In truth the important thing is that the bed is not in winding - i.e. the two ends of the bed are not twisted relative to each other, but are at the same angle. Obviously this *can* be done even if things are not actually level, but checking their relative slope with an engineer's level is obviously much harder or impossible if the whole shebang is way off level.
Same ish here. My ML7 came form the old boy who's son put it on ebay. I felt awfull wandering off with it. Clearly this guy had used and loved it for years and was simply too old to continue. I think I paid a fair price for it, but he had that look on his face that said he was saying good by to an old friend, and even if I had paid £5000 he wouldn't have looked much happier.
I spent a while chatting with him, and I hope he felt a little better knowing I would look after it and that what gave him so much enjoyment will still continue.
So now I have this lathe that I now feel I have to treat with extra reverence and respect, which is no bad thing and makes this thread so usefull to me :)
Understood. I will concentrate on getting the lathe back together an properly set up after cleaning it and replacing the belts. there was a unbelievable amount of crud inside, but many parts have come up like ne after degreasing. I aim to get it set up and running by the end of nex week.
Even though the lathe was covered in crud, it has seemed to preserve i very well in terms of rust. What do people use to stop surface rusting WD40? Oil? Things do tend to get a coating of rust in my garage if lef untreated. Should I cover the lathe with polythene or cloth or somethin after cleaning & oiling? I have put the spare gears and smal attachments in a plastic container with a lid, and sprayed them wit WD40. I have put them on a shelf next to the radiator. The lathe itsel is a different matter of course...
Save the WD40 for the few things it's good for! Preventing rust is NOT one of those things. Works OK as a cutting fluid for Al. Actual design purpose is as a water displacer. It was the fortieth formulation tried, thus WD-40.
It's mostlty solvents with a little bit of light oil (not enough). Generally, things hosed down with the stuff get cleaned off, and then rust badly, as the solvents tend to clear the oils off the surfaces, and the light oil therin evaporates later. Use one of the LPS products (or their equivalents), either LPS1 or 2, not 3, which is a preservative, and will keep your lathe from rusting if stored outside. On a seashore. For a long time. :-) Anyway, use the one that is an oil, rather than the greasless lubricant.
A wipedown with an oily rag once in a while is good on average, but may not suffice, depending on your conditions.
Plastic tarps are a bad idea, as the moisture in the air can condense on the inside, the one place you are trying not to have it! A cloth cover can keep the lathe dust free and still allows the air to circulate. It can absorb the oils off the surface it is to protect, though, and a spritz of oil on the sheet can help.
If you make a cloth cover like Trevor suggested, but make it big enough to cover the stand as well, and put a low wattage piano heater or similar in the bottom of the stand, it will stop the metal parts getting chilled and keep the atmosphere under the cover above the dew point to prevent condensation on the lathe and fittings. But it would be better insulating and heating the whole workshop if you could manage that.
I use way oil on slides and surfaces. It tends to stick and provides a barrier if any condensation does occur. Myford sell small containers of way oil from their stand at exhibitions.
Unless you can get it cheaper locally, go to somewhere like:-
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get a 5 litre plastic tin of slideway oil. That will last you for several years. Keep some in a small oil can and use it to anoint the ways and gears. Also use it in a pump can to oil the two oilers on the top of the saddle. All the other oilers should have a bearing type oil (I use 15W/50 and it works for me).
The axial play on the leadscrew that you mentioned earlier can be taken up merely by taking up the slack on the nylock nut that holds the handwheel on. Tighten it up to the point just before it starts causing extra friction as you turn the wheel, after disengaging the half nuts and any change wheels at the other end that might affect the feel of it.
Consider getting a dehumidifier for the garage. They make a big difference to the rusting problem, _much_ more so if you allow motor vehicles any space in the garage.
Glad to hear that you now have a Myford to "love" and care for. My own buying experience was similar to ACs. After arriving to view the machine the wife and I were given tea (several cups) and lots of cakes (very nice) while we were shown some beautiful models that had been made with the lathe. I was also subtly asked many questions as to my intentions; after about an hour I obviously "passed" the interview and was allowed to see the machine. Having carefully watched how I handled his lathe I was then allowed to buy it. To be honest he didn't seem to care about the price very much and by that time I didn't want to "deal" too much anyway. Obviously a good sales technique if you can carry it off? I saw him many months later at a model show his first question, "How is MY lathe". I'm glad to say that he looked very well and was enjoying running his superb traction engine in the summer sun, long may it last.
I live close to the coast and unprotected steel soon gains a brown coating in my garage. I have had bad experiences with WD40 over the years when used as you describe, although the items haven't rusted they have become very badly stained by the WD40 residue. I now put a couple of sheets of kitchen towel in the bottom of the tub and pour on a little slideway oil so that it is absorbed. After cleaning the items I wipe them with a very oily (slideway again) rag and seal in the container. This has protected my accessories well but of course you do need to clean them each time before use. I keep an old ice cream tub with a little slideway oil in together with my "lubricating rag".
I have a couple of lathes and these are cleaned down after use (apprenticeships were useful really, and just try walking away from a dirty machine in our training shop). I use cheap 2" and 1/2" decorating brushes to clean all swarf etc from the "bright" parts of the lathe and then wipe down with paper towel; don't forget to move the saddle, cross slide and tailstock to clean under them. After that I wipe over with my "lubricating rag" and cover the machine. The Myford has one of their own covers the others are covered with what I believe are animal (or furniture) blankets. These do absorb the oil over time and help the preservation. I put a plastic cover over these to stop them absorbing any damp in the atmosphere. My garage is not sealed and has reasonable ventilation; I do also use a dehumidifier these days as I park a car in there as well. This system soon becomes second nature and doesn't take more than a few minutes even at one o'clock in the morning. Starting the next time is also much more pleasant with a clean machine. Obviously you need to wipe the machine over before the next use or the excess oil will become an excellent grinding compound in use. I have not had any rusting problems over the last 14 years since adopting this "habit". Of course like any "habit" this has its risks and I have been known to let my meal go cold while I clean down the machine, SWMBO soon caught on and starting calling 5 mins early. I caught on to that and .................... well you can guess.
I fully agree with the advice to use the machine and really find out its idiosyncrasies before embarking on any major rebuild. You might have found this already but there is a good section on setting up a lathe on this page:
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Includes a lot about basic setup and is really useful to remember all of those points we all tend to forget.
In article , jontom snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com writes
That's a great site, Keith - I wish it had been around when I started, and I'm sure it will still have some useful points.
The piece about the slack key in the Myford tailstock is IIRC discussed in detail in the GHT Manual, with a more explicit step-by-step description of the cure.
Won't repeat the very cogent comments of others about WD40. I use Shell "Ensis" oil for wiping down tools, bedways etc. This contains a rust-proofing preservative, and is pretty effective. I bought a gallon can back in the 1980s, and it could well outlast me. My cherished "oily rag" has several years worth of Ensis in it, and any time I am putting away any steel item (square, taper tooling, fabricated part etc.) it gets a wipe. When a lathe or mill session is over, I vacuum off the swarf, and put some Ensis or some Nutol (the oil I usually use on the lubrication points) on a kitchen towel to wipe down (I don't use the oily rag for this as it would get full of metal fragments). I wipe down the painted surfaces as well as the bare metal ones, mostly for appearance!
Ensis is not really the best slideway lubricant; Nutol is better, but still not the best, so every so often I remove the cross/top slides, clean them and give them a does of Rocol moly grease. Rarely find the need to do the lathe bed with this though.
For precision tools, I suggest you keep them in a close-fitting box or drawer with some VPI inhibitor paper or one of those little tubs of VPI inhibitor. I am fortunate in that my workshop is part of the house, so benefits from the central heating. I still get rust fingerprints if I forget the above precautions though.
It probably was... It's a copy/archive of Chris Heapy's site that he ran from the mid 90's. He stopped and disappeared all of a sudden a few years back IIRC he was getting fed up of doing a lot of work for the community and just getting grief and spam for his labours. John and Charles's site took over the for sale/wants functions of Chris's site.
PS. Thanks to all of them for the efforts put in on behalf of the lot of us.
As I said earlier, I obtained from a local supplier some HYDEX 3 Hydraulic oil, and SLIDEX CGLP 68 slideway lubricant (I got 5 litres o each for £20). This is from a manufacturer called Petro-Canada.
The partial strip-down and cleaning is complete. tomorrow I am orderin some oilite bushes for the apron and leadscrew, and a new 'acorn' handl to replace a damaged one. Apart from a new felt slideway scraper, that about it I think. I will then begin rebuilding it which shouldn't tak too long. I have resisted the tempatation to repaint it., even thoug it could really do with it. I want to use the machine, and don't wan to get into the 'shame to mess it up' frame of mind (as with a coupl of cars I rebuilt!).
After cleaning the motor casing, it seems the motor is non-original. I is 'Hoover' motor, type 2123 HBF, 2.8A, 1/3 HO, 1425 rpm. The cas colour is grey, but not a match for the late (see the pictures I poste earlier in the thread). It fits on the original platten, no extra hole have been drilled,and it works fine! Should the motors be rubbe mounted? Mine isn't (yet!).
I have attached a couple of pictures of the mainshaft and clutch Everything looks ok to me, and just confirms the tests I did befor purchase.
If anyone sees anything untoward in any of the pictures I've posted PLEASE tell me
David, hi, yes I've found it helpful on more than one occaision. Chris Heapys site was an excellent resource and it was a pity to see it go. As Mark says I think we are all in John/Charles debt for taking on the sales/wants which has developed into a great resource for our type of equipment. My only complaint would be that it is so successful you need to be really quick when you see something you want. I'm convinced that some stay glued to their screen 24/7 just to stop me getting that obtuse bit I've been looking for which always comes out when the wife has friends round and I'm banned from the PC.
I suppose the other great leap forward since my apprenticeship days is where we are now, this type of forum has allowed instant (almost) access to almost unlimited experience and knowledge. I am always amazed at how much time and trouble others go to to help, thanks guys
- long may it continue. One warning of course is that one has to take the time to learn which of the advice needs filtering out but if you lurk on these type of forum for a month or two it becomes very obvious who is providing sound advice and who is just looking for a fight.
Don't get me wrong I think the well respected writers of ME and MEW are still very relevant but unfortunately the ME/MEW organisation hasn't done much to make their vast store of excellent articles easily and cheaply available. The books of GHT and his like are terrific but I feel that to make best use of the writings you have to build the project/accessories and learn from the experience. If you have the time an excellent grounding in good techniques will be your reward. However, many people coming into the hobby these days do not see Model Engineering as the end but just as the means to another end; repairing rebuilding bikes, cars etc. For these the GHT type books might not at first sight appear very relevant. Another thing that strikes me is how people will disregard excellent advice because that was done on a......hush.........drumroll......... "Myford" and I "only" have a Chinese lathe. For these people I'm glad to see there are now some superb sites that show what can be done using the modern import lathe. To be honest I'm surprised that ME/MEW hasn't commisioned someone to repeat/update many of the older basic articles but illustrated on one of the newer import lathes. We need something to show those from non engineering backgrounds that many of the techniques illustrated on Myfords between 1960-1990 are equally applicable to your 2007 "Great Wall Flower Company" lathe.
Of course if you are lucky enough to have found a Myford then GHT, Martin Cleeve and their ilk should be on your bookshelf.
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