Steam Engine Boilers and Liability

If I sell a stationary engine on eBAY comlpete with steam plant as a private sale, am I liable for the failure of the boiler and consequences?
I thought about simply tossing the safety valve so it can only be brought back into service by the buyer fitting an new safety valve?
A bit like cutting the plug off electrical stuff before sale.
Steve
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On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:11:39 -0000, "Steve W" <steve> wrote:

Dismantle it and sell it as a kit?
Regards, Tony
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Steve W wrote:

In general, yes, and especially so if you have cause to suspect that it might be faulty.
However if you eg have a boiler cert the inspector might well be responsible rather than you if you have done your bit right. And they will (or had better have) have insurance for this.
There are specific laws about selling things with steam boilers, which often (if not usually) do not correspond to the ideas of boiler inspectors - but I'm far too pissed now to say exactly what they are.
And I am not a lawyer, and so I could not give proper legal advice under any circumstances.

Nope, that would be illegal for an electrical item anyway, and it would probably also increase the circumstances in which you would be liable - not a good idea.
If it was not a boiler (or electrical item) you might be able to shift or void liability, eg by stating that the item is of scrap use only and getting a written acknowledgement of that from the purchaser, but there is a specific law here, and offhand I am not sure enough of what it says to comment.
Might post some more later, I do know a little about this, but don't hold your breath. Some links, but there ae more:
http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1999/99200102.htm http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20000128.htm
I think the HSE has also issued some "official" guidance, but you should ask them.
--
Peter Fairbrother


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In what has turned out to be a reasonable and manageable set of conditions for public liability insurance purposes, the responsibility for testing of 'small' boilers for models in the UK has been devolved to clubs that are members of either the 'Northern Association' or the 'Southern Federation'. That is good news for club members but leaves unattached individuals out on a limb. My understanding it is that liability lies with the current owner of the boiler but insurance is impossible without a known and documented history of the boiler including previous test records. I had no difficulty getting a new certificate for a twenty-year boiler but then I was able to produce evidence of its history.
Boilers below 1.5 bar-litres (pressure in bars x capacity in litres) do not need to be tested (but it is nevertheless recommended). 'Club testers' are normally authorised to test up to 500 bar-litres and, with special authorisation, up to 1100 bar-litres.
Model matelots have some remaining problems concerning remotely controlled boiler feeds but this may be because, in their wisdom, the Model Power Boat Association did not take the initial negotiations seriously.
For some more detailed information about testing you could do worse than take a look at <http://www.communigate.co.uk/wilts/northwiltsmes/page21.phtml
--
Mike Hopkins
CSME <http://www.cheltsme.org.uk>
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writes

a private

responsibility
devolved to

do
with
the
than
As an interesting aside, I suspect that most vehicle radiator systems fail the 1.5 bar litre test. After all the radiator is a 'pressure vessel' and the engine a heat source that can boil the water. So it will also fail on the 'two means of filling' test. !
AWEM
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On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:41:59 -0000, "Andrew Mawson"

Sounds like a good basis for a windup to me - insist that the DoT include boiler presure testing in the MOT test <G>
Regards, Tony
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On or around Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:53:14 +0000, Tony Jeffree

FFS, NO!!! don't give them ideas!!
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
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On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:43:45 +0000, Mike H

I'm sure that I should look the answer up, but it might be quicker to just ask...
Is 1.5 bar-litres based on gross pressure vessel volume; net pressure vessel volume (less fire tubes etc) or working water volume?
Mark Rand RTFM
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[snip]

The easiest one of those three. In other words fill the boiler up completely then empty it and measure.
--
Mike Hopkins
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writes

The boiler will be operated at 15PSI with a water capacity of about a pint, which sounds like less than 1.5BAR Litres?
Steve
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15psi = 1.03 bar and 1 pint = 0.473 litre which sounds like less than 1.5 bar-litres to me too!
--
Mike Hopkins
CSME <http://www.cheltsme.org.uk>
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No, I do not think you are otherwise no one would sell a model steam locomotive for example and there are plenty of these for sale from time to time.
The owner is responsible for the safety of the object and as a private sale the usual Buyer Beware advice applies. You can be explicit about your boiler to inform a buyer of its history to be helpful.
Its then up to the buyer to test/insure or otherwise depending upon the use they intend to put the object your selling.
As long as you attempt to fulfil a "duty of care" and not mislead any buyer I think you can safely sell without the sword of litigation hanging over you. ...... but then that's just MHO.
Alan
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