Which Lathe (groan)

Hi Keith,

I should really have stipulated that *all* Maxtor and Western Digital drives have catastrophic failure rates when compared with very new Hitachi, non-Chinese Seagates and Samsung drives.

Odie

NO . . . . (bangs head several times). Whilst it is the easiest thing in the world to locate a suitable machine, it is the hardest thing in the world to get it at a £price substantially less than the average 3rd world countries debt.

The business is at the stage where our production machinery is working flat out & we can't justify switching them from ££££revenue earning production to speculative R&D.

Unless I can persuade the cantankerous 'old git' who does our R&D to work nights . . . . thought banished, I'm told he single handedly fought 2 world wars, getting him onto nights would give him a 3rd one to go at.

Point taken. I have pencilled a budget of £2-3k for a machine in the 9x20 range either new (preferably) or serviceable 2nd hand. I'll let you all know if I'm happy with the price & the cantankerous one is happy with its performance when/if we manage to source such a lathe.

Hi Odie, thanks for that I'll keep an eye out when I buy the next batch of parts, Hitachi was "the" name in my younger days but seemed to have gone quiet of late. Although I obviously don't pay for items that fail so quickly I do have to change them for free so they still cost me. I thought it was all good business for you though.

Funny how times change, a few years ago I wouldn't have touched Seagate with a bargepole but my last batch (I'll have to check their origin) have so far been faultless. Likewise with Samsung, after avioding for years I now find their (?? never know who really makes things these days) stuff in general is excellent. I have to say though that my major (in number) failures are always optical drives, while very, very cheap these days they don't seem to have a long life.

Going back to your metalwork question, how big a milling machine do you need? We don't seem to have generated much advice for you on that question yet.

Best regards

Keith

I need a milling machine that will cope with being able to drill a circular "furrow" around the metal concealing the spindle motor on hard drives. About 2mm wide and up to 4mm deep - although if I'm going to purchase a milling machine, I may as well get something that I can experiment more adventurously with and develop some prototype data recovery tools I'm working on.

Absolute precision is not going to be necessary, although I'd like something that's half-way decent.

Odie

On or around Wed, 16 May 2007 14:45:15 +0100, "Babba" enlightened us thusly:

I assume you're talking american-style 9x20... is that the size you want or the minimum you can usefully use?

putting it another way... that's about the size of a typical boxford or cochester bantam or similar. Something like a colchester student 1800 say would be quite a lot bigger overall, which might be a problem if you're short of workshop space, say.

for that kind of money there ought to be stuff out there.

then there's this:

about which I know nothing, but it looks in good nick and is not very old. might be a bit big, though.

nice little chipmaster here:

Hi, well I certainly hope that you find a machine that fits your needs but I have to say that I still have no real idea of what you want or how to help. The machine you illustrated from Axminster is much larger than the 9x20 range that you mention in your last paragraph. The usual understanding of "9x20" is the American convention of the "swing (twice centre height) x distance between centres"; by this convention the one from Axminster would be "12x36". The British convention is to give the centre height x distance between centres so your 9x20 in "our" terms would be "4.5x20". If you really mean 9x20 in British terms the Axminster is too small? Sorry to confuse but it's difficult to advise if we don't get the size clear.

So if in fact you really need a 9x20 size lathe then something like a Boxford (AUD/BUD or later TS type) and there are many good secondhand ones available, would fit the bill and come in considerably less than your budget. If you need a machine as large as the Axminster then again there are many to consider but I have to say the Axminster price is not typical of a new one fitted with a DRO system, in fact at first sight I thought it was a mistake.

If you are currently doing all the R&D work on your busy production machines, what are you using for production? Why not get another similar that will both do your R&D and be available to expand your production capability when required? See my next comment if you currently put out the machining.

A last comment and I apologize if you feel it out of place but, as an experienced "change manager" in a former life; allowing someone who really might not want to change his current working practice to make the "buying" decision is not the best route for instant success. The best excuse I know for not progressing with R&D is "I can't get on a machine". This change of working practice would also apply of course if you currently "go out" for machining and are trying to bring it in house. Of course there are ways of overcoming even the most cantankerous 'old git' but such advice needs to be very specific and anyway is what allows me to buy another machine on occaision. As I said apologies if that is not the case but it is how your posts have struck me.

Regards

Keith

Odie Hi,

Not a demanding requirement but you will need to budget for a rotary table as well as the machine. In fact as you are dealing with scrap drives anyway wouldn't a simple "hole saw" in a reasonable pillar drill do what you need? Of course it wouldn't allow you to develop your other tools but would be comparatively cheap.

For that type of task something like a Sieg X3 available from the likes of Arc Euro would seem to fit the bill. It has the additional advantage that there are now CNC conversion kits available (not exactly cheap though) that would make your task very simple and repeatable. You wouldn't even need the rotary table. Almost all of the "bench top" milling machines of the required size would do that specific task but I couldn't recommend the cheaper "round column" design if you are eventually going to use it for anything more demanding.

Regards

Keith

Giving bean counters too much power has been a big mistake IMO in this country, though I was told (FWIW) by an ex-Herbert employee that one of the causes of their demise was that they made very large investments in new technology (CNC etc) but went down what with hindsight was the wrong path & the investment was wasted. It could well have been the bean counters who chose that path, of course.

Cheers Tim

No but most people who want one are

-- Regards,

John Stevenson Nottingham, England.

Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:-

Which is why I bought a brand new chinese machine from a company with a big reputation for after sales.

At Harrogate, I had my "mentor" with me a machinist of at least 50 years experience - run his own business and machine shops here and in the US. He looked at the Myford stand and looked at the Warco BH600 (£1600). He couldn't understand why Myford even bothered turning out. He seemed to think the BH600 was twice the machine at half the price.

I'm sure it wasn't just the personnel changes which caused the ultimate demise and certainly the 'peg-board' CNC concept (I can't remember what the official name was - I was with the Small Tools side) was - as you say, in hindsight - flawed and was a very substantial investment.

JG

NOOOO!!!! This is a particular method to free up seized spindles to recover the data!

It's a very delicate operation, believe you me!

That looks more than adequate - but having downloaded the instructions on how to "prepare" the thing.... I think I'd have to find one ready-prepared.

It has the additional

Thanks for the info. Very useful.

Odie

-- jontom_1u

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Planning to change your surname name to Ratner, John?

Regards, Tony

On or around Thu, 17 May 2007 12:30:44 +0100, "Steve W" enlightened us thusly:

that's the one I was trying to remember, Warco. nice looking machines and good prices.

My main objection to Myford has always been two-fold: they're too small for the sort of things I want to do, and second-hand ones tend to go for silly money because of the name. granting they're well-made (dunno about new ones, mind) nevertheless the value is out of proportion for what is, basically, a small machine with limited abilities.

The boxford AUD always struck me as a nice little machine. Do they still make Boxfords?

Other good 'uns to hunt are Harrisons. Here's a nice-looking one:

and a cracker of a boxford STS10-20.

Unfortunately for me as I have a nice one for sale, I think the Myford secondhand prices are actually going a little "soft". I see that on G&M Tools list today they have reduced a reasonable looking ML7R by almost half of what it was in January. A look at completed listings on E-bay shows a long list of unsold or relatively cheap Myfords (compared to last year) over the last few months. I suspect that many in this area of the market are being tempted by the likes of the BH600. Ah well I'll just have to keep the two,such hardship.

I've always thought that in many ways these have been the bargain of the small secondhand lathes for years. In fact although larger and heavier it takes up little more room than a Myford and the underdrive design means it stands nicely against a wall with little wasted space. Again G&M list today a BUD which doesn't look too bad and at =A3500 (+VAT) is really in E-bay territory. Boxfords suffer I believe as there are a number of clapped out ones on the market and also some very basic machines that drag the prices down. A much under-rated machine in my book.

I have no connection with the dealer mentioned and have never bought from them. This is no recommendation either way from me particularly as I have a fine example of both machines for sale, but just illustrating that I believe secondhand prices are dropping even for the smaller more popular machines.

Hard to know how far and how fast or even if they will continue to go down but with the improving presentation of the import machines I suppose it is inevitable. E-bay has I believe held back the move but even there while you can still pick out machines that fetch "silly money", a lot now seem to "not reach the reserve" or later return due to "non paying bidder". Of course it could just be a quiet period and things will return to normal but some how I doubt it.

With regard to the new machines though I wonder if we will see the benefit of the strong pound? It does seem a bit slow in filtering through which I suppose indicates a strong market, a point also suggested by the fact that you seem to have to join a waiting list (short though they are) for the better machines.

Best regards

Keith

In article , Austin Shackles writes

Oh dear, I wish I hadn't seen that - I've lusted after one of the better Harrisons for years, but I really don't think I have room for one! This one looks rather nice.

David

The Super X3 cnc-converted machines are now available in the UK under the Syil brand:

I have been looking at these and the reports on the CNCZone forum but i

seems to me that once bought there is no support for these. One guy over on CNC Zone bought a kit and it has no wiring diagram an instructions and now he's asking all over how to go about it.

So after you have spent your money, at least in the UK, do you get an support and what level ?

-- P Riedi

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