Huh? DAPRA GC was not a good thing?

Dean Burell wrote:


Don't think the government has much to do with it. The transistor was invented at Bell Labs as part of their ongoing basic research. The idea of putting several of them on the same piece of silicon was first tried out at Texas Instruments, I forget to what purpose. The first microprocessor was developed for a calculator manufacturer. Since then the major developments have all been due to commercial competition. The government did try to get a hand in it at one point with Sematech but my understanding is that the impact of that has been minimal.
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--John
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Randy M. Dumse wrote:

...
Emotional intelligence vs academic intelligence?
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Randy M. Dumse wrote:

No wonder. With a flame bait like yours, who can resist?

They were probably thinking they were saving their countrymen. And they were right. Hundreds of thousands of lives were saved on both sides when the use of the bomb forced Japan's surrender. And today, nuclear power is one of cleanest and cheapest means of power generation.

Rigged? Unconstitutional? Is this a diatribe or a creative writing exercise?
> Hello!?!? Red flag there! Yet those guys

Do you feel the same animosity for those that invented gunpowder, the airplane, the satellite, or the computer? I can't help but feel our primitive ancestors had a similar argument when someone invented the the bow and arrow. What were those bow and arrow guys thinking? Inventing something that let people kill other people while being far removed from harms way!? And of course, the bow and arrow was never used for productive purposes like hunting for food...
Chris
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Naw, I'm not a Luddite.
In fact, I'm trying on a computer, my products have flown on satellites, I fly and owned two airplanes at one time, and I was once "Top Gun Sixth Fleet" (as well as one of the guys they trusted with the keys to the nukes).
My post wasn't intended to be against advancement of technology, but of handing over technology to men who have shown their true colors with bad faith, which makes you wonder if we shouldn't have known better.
Trinity guys were probably most moral of the examples, but I didn't want this to degenerate into a "bad nazi" discussion if it could be avoided.
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Randy M. Dumse

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Slightly off-topic.
When the TV series Robot Wars started up in the UK, the production company sent a very nice lady to a robot exhibition, to try and persuade the various companies, orgs and universities there to enter the first series.
Two flat-out refused:
Shadow, because we are not in the business of violence, and Robot Wars is nothing if not the business of violence,
the British Army, because if they won, everyone would say "but of course", and if they *didn't* win, it would be a Major Political Scandal...
cheers, Rich.
--
rich walker | Shadow Robot Company | snipped-for-privacy@shadow.org.uk
technical director 251 Liverpool Road |
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You are not the only one with this attitude in the UK. :-)
I've been trying to find low cost prebuilt radio modules here in the UK with a greater than 500m range and the first thing that the Radiometrix guy wanted to know was: is my hobbyist application a battle robot because he didn't want to see his modules get destroyed... :-)
Simon.
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Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century
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clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:

Now *that's* an even more extreme attitude...
I wonder how he feels about EOD robots - something we've often thought the Hand would be good for...
--
rich walker | Shadow Robot Company | snipped-for-privacy@shadow.org.uk
technical director 251 Liverpool Road |
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have

Yes, you should worry about ALL aspects of your health.

where

Geez, maybe they were worried about the gun pointed at their head?

thinking?

guys

did

robot

Maybe they were thinking, "Geez, I'm going to leave it up to the gun toting conspiracy theorists who know what's best for this country and have a better understanding of Constitutional Law than any scientist does. I hope they get their act together soon and take this country back!"

fair,

winning

it

Yes, I'm surprised that 5 teams finished.

technology,

"We" were probably thinking the same thing the Wright brothers thought. That is , "We're gonna be rich, rich, rich!!!" Or maybe not.
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Very good example, Joe. You do know how rich the Wright brothers got right? You know about Curtis?
--
Randy M. Dumse

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Yes I do know how the Wright brothers got rich. I also know one of them died in the pursuit of what?? Riches or knowledge? They were making some pretty good jack with the bicycle gig before they started flying. As for Curtis, he used to fly over my house. Of course, I wasn't quite born yet.The way I understand it, he tried to rip off the Wright Bros.
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Not the way I heard it. Wilbur was broken up in a plane crash (out demonstrating the technology with an Army inspector who works for Wright's competitor), later during the lawsuites over their rights dies of typhus. Orville eventually looses his intellectual property rights.
I haven't done a very extensive serach, but from: http://www.lighterthanair.net/langley.htm
"Orville wins the patent battle, but it's a hollow victory. When World War I starts just two years later, the government frees all the airplane companies from patent restrictions so they can build better planes"
That's why I say this is such a good example from the history book. They guys who brought us lighter than air aviation were stripped of their rights and technologies by the government a few years later.
Such repeated governmental behavior is the basis for my saying, "Our little robotics community just spent, ?what?, $40 million or more, creating something that we should have been paid $40 billion for? and without even the promise of a kiss afterwards."
You think our fine government will respect any patents that came out of the DAPRA GC? Why should they? Besides, they got advanced copies of all the ideas. They were handed them over to the inspectors.
So you think you DARPA racers are anything or anyone more important than Wilbur or Orville Wright? Learn from how they were treated, and expect less for yourselves.
There is a well established precedent for treating you so. Did you participants all do this so you could be used as unpaid slave labor? Because that is the likely reward awaiting your hours of sacrifice. Like I said, the party is over, DARPA's goals were all met, the prize money has gone to one of their long term associates. (Look up the definition of shill on Wikipedia, not legality comment on same.)
Despite my many detractors, I hope it is coming clear to some of the reasonable readers out there, I am not making things up, I am simply pointing at history. Some ought to be scratching their heads about now, and wondering, huh, maybe DAPRA GC wasn not a good thing. Only if history repeats itself.
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Randy M. Dumse

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Correction, with more careful reading, it is Orville who is broken up in the crash, and Wilbur who dies from typhus. Orville survives but looses his property rights.
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Randy M. Dumse

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Randy M. Dumse wrote:

Quite a trick considering that they died in 1799 and 1810 respectively, and were French citizens living in France to boot.

The same reason they would respect such patents that did _not_ come from that source?

Is it your contention that the winner cheated somehow? If not, exactly what is your contention? Generally speaking research agencies have long term relationships with the more capable research establishments, so it is not surprising that one of their long term associates was able to produce the most successful device.

What's becoming clear is that you (a) are not rational on this topic and (b) should not take up the practice of law any time soon.

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--John
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J. Clarke wrote:

I'm confused. Wasn't he talking about Wilbur and Orville Wright? Wilbur died young before WWI, but Orville lived until 1948 or 1949. Both were born in the midwest, and were American citizens through-and-through. I think they flew and did some things in France from time to time, but I think that's about the extent of their French Connection.
-- Gordon
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Gordon McComb wrote:

While Wilbur died young, Orville did quite well. See a picture of his house (a large mansion), here:
http://wright.grc.nasa.gov/orville.htm
This was after he cashed out of the Wright Airplane Company, which became Curtiss-Wright, which is still in business (NYSE ticker symbol: CW).
                John Nagle
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Gordon McComb wrote:

But the Wright Brothers didn't have anything much to do with lighter-than-air aviation, which was created by the Montgolfier brothers in France in the 1700s and used by both sides during the Civil War.

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--John
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Hmmm. I seem to recall reading that aerial observation balloons were first tried in the Spanish-American war, in Cuba. 1898, I think, which puts its first US military use some 30 years after the Civil War.
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Mike Young wrote:

Which civil war? There's been civil wars all over France since the 1700s. I've never heard of US military involvement in any of them.
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The one I had in mind had US military involvement, circa 1861 through 1865. Just as some around here speak colloquial of it as "the Lake", non-locals are more comfortable with the name Lake Michigan. Likewise other areas have "the Bay", "the Boy's Home".... Around here, "the Civil War" refers to the US Civil War.
Other Civil Wars the US was involved in? Pick any ten in the past fifty years.
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Mike Young wrote:

<http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Lighter_than_air/Civil_War_balloons/LTA5.htm
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--John
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