action: due diligence

A formal policy of REDUCING rules to the bare minimum recognizind that LAWS restrict us sufficiently for the authorities tastes and any self regulation should be proactive and volunyary and not mandatory and enforced punatively.

Remember we got here largely by a Commercial Manufacturer's version of a safety code. Why not let VENDORS play a larger role as they traditionally have done, which delivered the very safety record we enjoy today?

Iz yet again:

Great, another layer of club bureaucracy for you to gripe about whenever they make a decision that you or one of your leaders disapproves of.

Yet another old, discredited idea.

Ray, I'm determined to look for signal in your noise, so I see three on-topic points in your comment

1. bureaucracy

Structuring an organization so that specialized resources can be focused on specific areas does not necessarily equate to a "bureaucracy", but lets see:

from among the various definitions for that word, given the negative connotation implied in your statement, I believe that you are using this one:

"An administrative system in which the need or inclination to follow rigid or complex procedures impedes effective action"

In my vision a group of people doing research, sharing ideas, concerns and experiences, considering solutions and weighing risks and benefits do not necessarily have to be "rigid or complex", and consequently ineffective. It is just a matter of having the right people, sharing a vision working positively toward producing real benefit or preventing real harm. You just have to have the right people.

I think this is where performance measures come in. You want to be able to assess the competency and productivity of the committee.

1. handling complaints

yup, sounds like a reasonable concern. How can decisions be reconsidered, and how can new problems be communicated and elevated? Do you have ideas about that? I think the KISS principal applies, so ideally the organization overall is as open as possible.

1. the effectiveness of referendums IMO thats > Iz yet again:

That's a lot of work!

Jerry

In other words, exactly what the BOD is elected to do and has been doing. The only "problem" with the BOD is that _you_ don't like some of their decisions. So what would change if someone else were making the decisions? In the end, if they too made decisions you don't like, you'd be right back here again demanding their heads on a pike.

And just as you're doing now, you'd claim to speak for "many members", yet you wouldn't have the guts to back that up by running for BOD or even posting in the members' forum.

Those may both be an issue, but the biggest obstacle probably is timeliness. It takes weeks to mail out, receive, and count ballots. The organization can rarely afford to waste time that way. Cost is another factor, as it certainly can't be very cheap to mail ballots.

ROTFL!

- iz

Jerry Irv> Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

I'm not convinced that this is on-topic, but I will be flexible as a 'courtesy'

responses inline

RayDunak> In other words, exactly what the BOD is elected to do and has been doing. The

but the point is that the BoD has NOT been doing their jobs, or the elements poisoning the organization would be expelled, a new board would be making a difference, restoring credibility to the organization, faithfully representing the interests of both its membership and the public at large (with respect to rocketry), attracting new members and retaining old ones.

it doesn't take guts to waste your time, either you allow it because you have no respect for your time, or you are under an illusion that it is not a waste

neither applies to me

I understand your point (thank you)

but you are thinking 20th century. Think 21st century.

- iz

Point.

You're right, you're still here. ;) Seriously though, it still boils down to _your_ opinion of who needs to be dumped and why, and you'd be just as unhappy with any other BOD or committee that didn't agree with you.

If you're referring to email ballots or other online voting methods, that isn't a practical solution. For one thing, even in this age there are still people who don't either don't have a computer or don't have online access, or simply don't use it. Then there's the issue of security. I for one wouldn't trust it, it's too vulnerable to hackers, etc.

You making a generalized reply to a specific charge is illogical and rude.

It is off topic and shows low intellect.

Jerry

So, Izzy,

Would your "new TRA" answer questions like I asked you about ARSA, or not?

I find it so very interesting that you won't answer even the most basic questions about ARSA, even though you are the "communications facilitator" (your term) for ARSA.

- George Gassaway

----------- repeat of questions that Izzy refused to answer

Izzy,

I?ve had some problems locating some things on the ARSA website.

Where can I find the ARSA by-laws?

Where can I find any information as to when/where ARSA was officially created as regards public/state (or federal?) documentation or recognition?

Where can I find info on when the last ARSA election was held, and who ran?

Where can I find info on when the next ARSA election will be held?

Where can I find a list of who is on the ARSA board, which positions are held by what people, and how does the ARSA board operate if for some reason the ARSA by-laws website link didn?t load?

As ARSA communications facilitator, I?m sure you won?t mind answering these.

- George Gassaway

an off-topic, attempt to impede a open inquiry into whats possible for rocketry and rocketers in an desperate attempt to prevent reflection on and contrasts with your ineffectiveness

I answered your transparent questions

- iz

GCGassaway wrote:

I believe Gassaway has clearly raised to the level of spam.

Perhaps, but he has valid questions he wants answered.

-- Drake "Doc" Damerau

Seems like a lot of posters have started doing that. The message count is way up. The content, on the other hand, has become sparse and repetitious.

-dave w

Izzy answered substantively.

I answered substantively (primarilly for the benefit of real listeners and lurkers not trolls like Gasaholic and Dunakin).

Jerry

Sory, I must have missed it. This place has been so bogged down with politics that I have had trouble keeping up. It's just that George dosen't get that worked up very often.

I am a real listener.

-- Drake "Doc" Damerau

Izzy wrote from the spin zone:

an off-topic, attempt to impede a open inquiry