Cato was right

snipped-for-privacy@browncoats.nei says...


'tis ok...we're used to it.
;-)
Technically, I would be a "good ol' boy" anyway, not a redneck.
--
Tweak

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Hello Malcolm,
I wasn't trying to be funny, but serious; Its ok to laugh though :P
Look, NAR really doesn't have much to offer except road blocks. Now in recent years, it has come in-line with the consumer/hobbyist. I want to fly low power; I am going to do it on my own. I just find a local park/field and fly A - D. Why do I need NAR to do that? What can NAR offer me that I can't provide for myself for free? Oh, NAR has a magazine ... ok, I typically just walk over to the magazine rack, read through the mag in 20 min, and walk away ... no need paying for it, and if there is something that I need to copy, I just head down to the library and photocopy it for free.
Do I need NAR insurance? Nope, as I carry personal liability insurance, and my TRA insurance helps too. So lets see, NAR insurance is MEANINGLESS to me. NAR magazine is FREE at the local bookstore/library. NAR BOD is useless to me, as I don't fly competition nor do I follow/care about their political in-fighting. This is why, I haven't renewed my NAR membership for a couple decades now ...
When I saw this posting, I ignored it for weeks as I do NAR. But then I decided to chime in here and give my opinion about NAR and its BOD.
When I buy a rocket motor, do I check with NAR, NAR BOD, or NAR Charter first? Hell, Fing NO! NAR plays little to NO role in my model rocket activity. They only org that I check with and fly at organized meets is TRA. I fly NAR decertified motors all the time ... NAR can't and WON'T stop me. And I have imported motors from Europe/Asia and I will fly those too!
NAR hasn't changed its paradigm since the late 1908s ... and still counting ...
Malcolm Reynolds wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@juno.com says...

Dang, that's a long time ago. I still blame Taft, though.
--
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On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:21:51 -0400, "Malcolm Reynolds"

"Weenies" eh? A fair portion of the NAR BOT have PhDs, and other impressive credentials and achievements. Although Bunny likes to pass as a good old southern boy, he is in fact a respectable northern banker type (a VP?). These are the same "weenies" that had the courage to go up against the BATFE.
Alan

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Just to clarify, I was not calling the NAR BOT "weenies", I was sarcastically berating those who call them "weenies" one moment, and in the next moment accuse them of being cabalistic hatchetmen.
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On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 22:40:07 -0400, "Malcolm Reynolds"

Yes, I got that. You just had the misfortune of posting your reply as a new thread. While the "redneck", had been addressed, I just wanted to address the "weenies". Now about that cabal...
OTOH, we could be led by a carpet bagger, carpet layer, err whatever...
While the NAR BOT is not perfect, and may be too slow and conservative at times, the NAR is generally in good hands.
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Who the hell are you? You obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about.

NAR BOT controlled by manufacturers? Absurd. NAR policy requires public disclosure of such involvement. Even when Vern was on the board a while back, he was no longer involved in the company that still uses his name. Gary Rosenfield was on the NAR board while in business, but that was a LONG time ago. Matt Steele was as well. Then there was that little issue that Trip had to disclose when he was still in the Navy. Other than that, it's been a LONG time since the NAR board had a manufacturer on it.
How many manufacturers has TRA had on its board in the past decade or two? Half of them?

That's pure BS. Bunny attended HPR launches long before he became NAR Prez. Hell (I can say that since it's 6/6/6 today), he RAN the first NAR HPR launch ever, the sport launch at NARAM-33 in 1991. I can't recall when he got his HPR certification, but he IS HPR certified. And has been for a long time.
I'm not sure of Jay Apt's HPR certification status (you might say he's level 6 or something like that), but the only other NAR board member in the last decade I can recall that definitely was NOT HPR certified was Vern.
Now, since you're so wrong here, I suggest you visit this site and order something:
http://www.hasbro.com/forms/orderform.cfm?prod=Clue&sku 045
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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I've made a similar request before. Someone else made that same request which appears in the same board minutes a few paragraphs earlier. The answer was still no. But since we've changed precedent, I will ask yet again at the association meeting at NARAM-48.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

So let me get this straight. You must believe that the Safety Code has enough flexibility to allow this to occur. If it was as black-and-white as you claim, you would never have made the request.
The problem is that someone else GOT the permission and you didn't. This sounds like an ego issue more than a safety issue. The teacher let someone else ride their bike in the schoolyard, but you couldn't. Wahhh. Deal with it.
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I keep waiting for the foot stomping, jumping up and down, and shouting to begin.. Maybe Jerry will come along tell Bob, "I told you so"...(:-)
Fred
Flyer wrote:

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Who are you, hiding beind an anonymous name?

Sure. I (and others) asked that motors not be expired off the certified motor list just because they haven't been made for 5 years. I never asked to be allowed to violate the safety code. I never asked that motors be added to the certified list without testing. I asked that motors that HAD been certified and WERE legal to use remain so, unless there was some documented safety reason to decertify them.

Well, if they're going to let the older kids ride their bikes in the school yard, then tey at least need to take down the "NO BIKE RIDING ALLOWED" sign.
The problem is that all members are expected to follow the NAR Safety Code, yet the board gave its permission for selected members to violate the NAR Safety Code, which is not allowed by the NAR Bylaws.

I will. See the items I've requested be placed on the NARAM meeting agenda.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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The NARBOT would turn down ANYONE flying those motors if they had a USR label on them. That's not a guess, it's a FACT. And it demonstrates a double standard. (NO, I'm not a USR fan, and would be VERY concerned if NAR ever allowed a USR motor to be used at a launch)
The NARBOT should not have made an exception in the safety code for a single vendor, and for a few individuals. That too is a FACT.
No matter what NAR/NARBOT says about TRA and EX (now called "research"), these motors couldn't even be flown at TRA "Research" launch, nor any other TRA sponsored launch with TRABOD. Not an opinion, it's a FACT.
This, by far, is the craziest thing I've seen NARBOT do - even after they allowed Kosdon Motors to remain certified, even after TRA decertified then due to a question about their usage at an NSL a few years back! (Hi Dave! Some folks don't forget!)
We, as a hobby, have invested how much in the lawsuit? Now it's become "public knowledge" that the NARBOT has approved the use of uncertified motors, coming from a questionable source, and transported (shipped) in questionable manor! Anybody out there that doesn't think this might come into play on any of the 7 counts still in debate with the ATF? - remember, the appeal was only for 1 of the 7!)
The NARBOT should be called into question on this one.

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Which **WILL** happen at the NAR annual meeting in Phoenix in August.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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That's not a guess. If it isn't on the combined list, it doesn't fly - end of story.
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That's certainly what we've always been told before.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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I believe you are correct. But we'll find out for sure at NARAM.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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You might add "vindictive" to your discription of John. Remember the little incident from a couple of years back, when he caused the loss of a feild in Georgia, while sitting on the didelines so to speak?
Fred
Reece Talley wrote:

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There's also the detail that use of that field was based on flying certified motors, and the organizers changed the rules and didn't bother to inform the land owner.
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Yep, that's what John claimed, in at least three vindictive paragraphs, exceeding five sentences each..(:-) Except the individuals directly involved, denied Johns version and required less than one two sentence paragraph to do so..(:-)
Fred
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And four of the five clubs that used that field were NAR and didn't fly EX.
Then there were his threats against the field in Orangeburg, which is owned by the same land owner.
Then there was the unilateral meeting with the landowner about his perceived parking issues for NSL '99, which ended up with the loss of the field for that event.
I've met John, had dinner with him, and like him. He was correct on many of his points but his blood feud with the TRA leadership and high octane ego clouded his arguments and drove off most potential allies.
It reminds me of an incident with the kite flying club here in Savannah a few years ago. There was a club here that met on the beach out at Tybee Island to fly huge kites over the dunes. A new guy joined the club and he used a non-regulation string for his kites. This caused major arguments within the club and eventually led to its breakup. I remember a kite flying co-worker giving me the blow-by-blow narrative and remember the emotion he felt over the issue.
Kite string. Such disagreements seem silly to me but this is exactly the way we rocketeers look to outsiders when we get into these petty arguments. Among his many, many, many arguments with others, John had a few extremely valid points, but they were doomed to failure because of his attitude.
If there is an issue with certified motors here then we need to address it and solve it as a group of like-minded, grown up adults.
My 2 cents. But as president of a local club, if there is an issue here, I will support its resolution. I will not support infighting.
Chuck W Sharc, NAR Section 613 www.flysharc.org
Sharc, we fly rockets so you don't have to!
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