estes new waterburner and outlander kits as shown in sport rocketry

anyone know more about these?
I want

--
Tater
President of MARS Club (NAR #660)
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Coming soon. Prototypes were at the Hobbyvisions show right there in the Estes booth. The cool looking Modroc kits should be available 'soon' (possibly by or just after xmas for the big models and early/spring 2004 for the mini models). The H2+O2 rocket is being tweaked to improve performance. I suspect they will release it asap.
Estes would know more.
They have a website.
They have a phone.
They know what they have now, what they will have later, when they think they will ship and lots of other info. I suspect that if something is about to ship, they would love to tell you so they can get the "buzz" going (and get the pre-orders going on the on-line vendor websites).
Let us know what they tell you!
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117

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snipped-for-privacy@alum.mit.edu (Fred Shecter) wrote:

Estes is a real business with a real staff. Shocking, eh?
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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and a real leadership that doesn't give a rats as$ about what happens to rocketry outside of their own product line!
Boycott Estes!
buy U.S. Rockets http://www.v-serv.com/usr/kits.htm
buy FlisKits http://www.fliskits.com /
buy Apogee http://www.apogeerockets.com/rocket_kits.asp
buy The Launch Pad http://www.the-launch-pad.com /
buy Qualified Competition Rockets http://www.cybertravelog.com/qcr/rockets.html
- iz
Jerry Irvine wrote:

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Actually they actively attack it through regulatory burdons in concert with NAR and TRA.

I am more inclined to ask Estes to release a 1.4S 24mm D40and a 1.4C 24mm E50 so they are closer to needing reduced regs.
My experience with boycotts is unless you can motivate a significant fraction of the user base to comply they are a total waste of time. Or actually increase vendor mindshare.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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And Edmonds, BMS, LOC, etc. etc....
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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absolutely!
I was including maufacturers of low power (novice to intermediate) kits, which is Estes market, and it is directed at newbies and BARs who will [re]enter the hobby at that level
if you are thinking of buying Estes, please consider the alternate vendors I mentioned (and others which may be mentioned)
here's two more manufacturers of low power rocket kits, of substantially higher quality than Estes
buy Aerospace Speciality Products http://www.asp-rocketry.com/products.html
buy Pratt Hobbies http://www.pratthobbies.com
Doug Pratt has always been helpful in our projects to save rocketry. Like the Senator Care Package initiative, which contributed to the increase of S.724 sponsors; as was Tim van Milligan of Apogee, previously mentioned
please support own vendors, those that have flown alongside us at many a launch
if you are buying HPR, all our vendors could use the help. Those who contributed specifically to the Save Rocketry Now (SRN) initiative can be found on the flyrockets.com Buying Rockets webpage at http://www.flyrockets.com/buy.html
Frank Uroda of PML is undeniably the visionary who enrolled others. And PML also sent a 10% discount coupon to everyone who contributed to SRN. I, for one, will certainly give PML my business (along with other noteworthy vendors, and those who simply had no means with which to support the cause)
PMLs website is at http://www.publicmissiles.com /
- iz
Bob Kaplow wrote:

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Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

Iz
Bob had BMS in there http://www.balsamachining.com/ they are definitely low power with their boost glider selections and parts. Put your sunglasses on before you click on the url, I'm not responsible for your discomfort if you don't.
--

Chuck Rudy

VooDoo Digital Productions
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But for MR level the kit is surpassed by the engine cost after 2-3 flights. Estes could (I assume) give their kits away and make a comfortable living on the engine profit. (ex: the inkjet printer business)
As far as I know, all MR hobbyists are stuck supporting Estes. I'd be a happy camper if someone else showed up at the party with a similar line of A-D which helped drive prices down, but I don't see that happening.
Thanks for the links. When I finish my stash of Estes kits lying around I'll certainly consider some of the other vendors.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Rodel Mocket) wrote:

I agree. NAR is actively preventing it on at least three levels:
1. NAR S&T policies 2. NFPA policies proffered by NAR/TRA/Estes 3. Failure to honor its own lawsuit position re BATFE
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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quest?
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Tater
President of MARS Club (NAR #660)
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Quest likes high prices.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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tater schuld wrote:

No, it's more like a mission, a search, perhaps even a dream...
David Erbas-White
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by all means, Quest!
Apogee sells Quest in sizes A6-4 thru C6-5 at http://www.apogeerockets.com/quest_motors.asp
certified by NAR see http://nar.org/SandT/NARenglist.shtml
- iz
tater schuld wrote:

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Not only does Apogee sell Quest, but Quest actually sells Quest.
Orders for bulk packs of kits and motors can be placed by contacting them. See their website.
http://questaerospace.com /
(I think the boycott idea will just increase sales. This is not "grapes" we're talking about. You will never make a teeny-weenie dent in Estes sales unless you lay down in front of every Wal-Mart, Michael's, Hobby Lobby, Hobbytown USA, Hobby People, etc. and block access. Direct your energies to something positive and constructive. If there is a better alternative, people will turn to it. If you build it, they will come.)
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-Fred Shecter
Auctions:
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If you ban or refuse to certify it they cannot get it.
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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that site has an under construction sign, with an announced "late fall debut"
it does have some contact info, though:
snipped-for-privacy@questaerospace.com 800-858-7302
I emailed them for a pricelist, catalog and list of dealers
- iz
P.S.: Fred, I never realisticly expected an effective boycott. Rather my intention was to create awareness, esp. among our new visitors, that other options exist - and that there is a case for opting out of becoming an Estes customer and supporting our own vendors, including the considerably better quality from rocket kits created by rocketeer small businesses.
Boycott Estes is an attention grabber. I think many seeing it would read further to find out why.
Fred Shecter wrote:

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Quest's response:
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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 10:33:43 -0700
From: Bill Stine < snipped-for-privacy@questaerospace.com>
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Jerry is correct about the prices:
A6-4 $6.60 B62/4 $7.13 C6-5 $7.86
I have no special love for Estes, but I have no grudges either. They're running a business, not a charity. Their attitude is a shame but their management is free to run the company how they see fit. I think it would be even worse if they were publicly owned because they might adopt the sue-your-customers approach and shut down all websites they didn't like.
I will continue to buy Estes motors, with neither a frown or smile on my face.
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Why would you continue to fly rockets without a smile on your face?
Joel. phx
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