R93: NAR S&T CONTEST MOTOR CERTIFICATIONS



Hey Rick. Never correct me when I am wrong. It ruins myself-perception of perfection!
:)
Jerry
"And Jerry Irvine is right! I have dealt with companies in all types of markets and I have never seen less attention to customer service in my life, it seems to go for all the manufacturers. " - Jeff Jones
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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The Aerotech G40, G64, and G80 have been contest certified.
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Christopher Brian Deem NAR 12308 TRA 2256 Level II
"Jerry Irvine" < snipped-for-privacy@gte.net> wrote in message
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Okay. First contest certifed HPR motor.
For 10 minutes!!
Is that better?
Jerry

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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There are lots of contest certified G motors. Over the years they have included the G12, G25, G35, G38, G40, G42, G55, G64, G80, and more. But the G33 wad never contst certified because its an HPR motor, because it's got over 62.5g of propellant. Likewise the G104 and G125 were not able to be contest certified.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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Hi all, Are the recertified motors usable at NARAM? They shouldn't be, since they were unavailable during the whole of the 2003-2004 contest season....
Just looking for consistency..
MikeyR
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (BRMutti) wrote:

GFL
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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<< Are the recertified motors usable at NARAM? They shouldn't be, since they were unavailable during the whole of the 2003-2004 contest season.... >>
If you believe they shouldn't, then you must also believe that any new motor type or delay introduced during the contest year should also not be usable at NARAM for the same reason.
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Hi Jim, Maybe so, but this may be a special case. Why change the contest playing field when it could easily have been said that the motors were only usable in the 2004-5 (+ hopefully!) contest year? The re-certed motors haven't been allowed in competition for some time, an won't be available for competition use until the end of the contest season anyway. If a brand new motor comes out and gets certification after the last day of the contest year, but before NARAM, would it be usable there?
NSL soon!
MikeyR
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(BRMutti) writes:

[Re]certified motors become usable on the effective date of the announcement. This doesn't impact NARAM, and there is plenty of precedence for new motors that become available being used at NARAM.
It's only DEcertifications that are normally at the end of the contest year.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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BR Mutti wrote:

Are the recertified motors usable at NARAM? They shouldn't be, since they were unavailable during the whole of the 2003-2004 contest season....
Just looking for consistency.. <<<<<
No, you are looking for 100% inconsistency.
The contest RE-certification is for practical purposes to contest fliers no different than any brand-new engine being contest certified in the middle of the contest year. Very few people would complain that new (or old resumed production ) engines coming out in the middle of the contest year had to be forced to wait until July 1st of the next contest year before that engine could be contest certified.
You are trying instead to double-penalize engines that went out of production, losing contest certification, then have made it back and regained contest certified status. Basing your complaint that it's in the middle of the season for these OLD engines that have returned.
Happens with NEW engines all the time. I don't recall July, the start of each new season, being a very popular month for new engines to get contest certified. So nearly all engines have gotten their contest certification in the middle of a season.

If a brand new motor comes out and gets certification after the last day of the contest year, but before NARAM, would it be usable there? <<<<<
In that example, no it would not be eligible for NARAM use.
NARAM is a continuation of the contest year preceding it. So, whatever engines were contest certified as of June 30th (last day of the season) are the ones contest certified for NARAM use. An engine not contest certified until July would not be eligible for NARAM competition flights.
- George Gassaway
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Hi George, Here is where I got my dander up a couple years ago. The Apogee 10.5mm motors were contest certified inside the contest season, but had the certifications pulled before the end of the season and they weren't usable at NARAM. This is a fundamental inconsistancy with the current situation (even though it is exactly the opposite side of the argument.) On another note, do any of you FAI competitors out there need some 10.5's? I still have a fair number of them and will be going to NSL next week...
Fly straight and true!
MikeyR
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (GCGassaway) wrote:

However one certified say May 15, 2004 (or announced then) would be useable despite a VERY SHORT time to the end of the contest year (45 days MAX).
It may not be "unfair access' on a theoretical basis, but on a practical logistical basis acquiring the motors or even becoming aware they are recertified happens for different people at different times. Then you have prep time.
People on rmr heard essentially real-time. People who rely on Sport Rocketry or Model Rocketeer have not been notified yet and probably will not hear till after the contest season is actually over - for real this time.
I personally don't care that much anymore since I no longer HOST many, many contests like I used to. I was "disincented" to do so by NAR Central Kommand.
But if for no other reason than the delays between online notice and physical notice (remember even the web page does not have this notice), then it is truly unfair to have this last minute/week/month availability.
Imagine showing up at NARAM having relied only on physical correspondence only to find 70% (the 60% online plus a couple of their friends) of your competitors have and are using a substantially more competitive motor for an event because they received notice better than you.
THAT has happened to me in NAR contests many times, mostly NOT at NARAM.
TARC gets around this by having an approved list before the event even starts.
Maybe NAR needs an approved list for the contest year, or perhaps for 1st and 2nd half.
Or perhaps nobody cares enough that NAR is arbitrary and will do whatever it wants.
I vote for #3.
Just like the arbitrary and wrong positions on 27 CFR 555.141-a-8 AND the final judgement.
Jerry
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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