Re: Just one stupid question



The rules were written by the same folks on the NFPA committe whether for NFPA code itself or for the respective org rules. There is more org crossover for NFPA.

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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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What is the voting age? What is the driving age? What is the drinking age?
Why?
What is the airspeed of .....
Joel.phx

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Joel Corwith wrote:

18.....but no adult supervision required

16 with supervision.....17 with no adult supervision required

21.......
Since adult supervision is only required in one of three I'm missing the pint.....err point......in fact he can take a flying lesson and fly the plane at 14.......

is adult supervision required?

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Chuck Rudy

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The model rocket zealots on the committee have written several rules in HPR that are speficically designed to stifle it. Dane Boles is the poster child for KILLING HPR.
"I wish I had never even heard of HPR." - Dane Boles
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Doesn't Dane sit on the Quest board? Or used to? If so his interests are other than high power, so why would he sit on a decision making committee where he is predjudiced pertaining to an issue he either cares nothinig about? or has concerns it could cut into his business? Was the quote made in reference to rocketry in general? his business? NAR business?
However, as *speculation*, IF he indeed has his interests in mind and IF he is part of Quest, it's obvious why he would be against younger fliers going L1. But that is pure speculation on my part.
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Chuck Rudy

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He co-founded Quest. He abandoned Estes to do it. Had other toy/hobby jobs while his non-compete clause time was running.
Two people died in a Quest motor factory explosion in Yuma Arizona on an Indian reservation. (fetch)
Bill Stine co-founded Quest and now owns it outright IIRC. Most of the Quest molds are from deals his fathter G. Harry Stine was involved in (MPC, etc). Bill is a good guy. Better than his father too. He doesn't appreciate me very much :)

The model rocket FACTION sees keeping model rocketry distinct from MODEL ROCKETRY a liability limiting issue. And they feel the need to add as many rules as can be stuffed down the committee (in the interest of safety of course) that will stifle access. Limited accesss IS the goal of the MR people WRT to HPR. TRA and AT are all too happy to comply as it gives them an effective monopoly and choke point. It worked.
Why are there not two distinct committees for two distinct sports and codes? Do you really need to ask?
Jerry

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Dane did NOT leave Estes to go to Quest. There was quite a period where he was out of the hobby. I've never heard anything about a possible non compete clause. But these are often unenforcable as denying a person employment.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

That period was a contractural obligation so he went to non-rocket related toy companies for a while.

Jerry
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my speculation on possible vested interests on the NFPA Pyrotechnics committee include
-- as antagonistic to HPR:
Dane Boles of Quest Aerospace (Alternate: Bill Stine) Vernon Estes (Alternate: Arthur H. Barber) Mary Roberts of Estes Industries -- as unlikely to support recognition of new certifying organizations, or support motions which diminish the power and influence of TRA/NAR (e.g.; rescinding any aspect of user or motor certification):
Bruce E. Kelly of TRA (Alternate: Scott Bartel) J. Patrick Miller (Alternate: Mark B. Bundick of NAR) -- as unlikely to support motions that favor new vendors and/or technologies at the expense of established ones, and conversely are likely to support motions that fortify established vendors and technologies:
Michael W. Platt of the High Power Rocket Manufacturing Dealers Assn. Gary C. Rosenfield of Industrial Solid Propulsion Inc.
--
- iz

Chuck Rudy wrote:
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Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

It's looking a little like a conservative old boy network (apologies Mary :-) ).........that's a pity........

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Chuck Rudy

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You do realize Chuck that on rmr, one stupid question, leads to 1000 stupid answers, right? ; )
Randy
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Randy wrote:

I'm guessing the ones who can answer this one stupid question will have a hard time coming up with anything but one stupid answer. :-)
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If you're right, you should go to Vegas. ; )
Randy
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[I'm several days behind on RMR, and just got to this thread. It still doesn't have a real answer...]
The answer to your question in the USA is the CPSC and the BATF. The CPSC restricts access to minors (those under 18) to any motor with more than 62.5g propellant OR 80 NS total impulse. The BATF crap has already been hashed to death in RMR.
That stated, yes it's reasonable for some sort of Junior program to be set up where say HS aged kids can do G-H-I and maybe more under the supervision of a certified adult. The Rockets for Schools program already does this to some limited extent. At least in the NAR, the way to make that happen is to write up a proposal, and submit it to the NAR BOD. If you start now, and work fast, you should be able to make the agenda for the winter meeting, which is usually in February...
I'd contact Bunny, and the heads of the Education and Sport Services committees.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

But with N, O, P, Q motors :)
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The folks I know that perticipated inthe program used 38mm I motors for their rockets. At least for now, that eliminates the LEUP hassles.
    Bob Kaplow    NAR # 18L    TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"         >>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<< Kaplow Klips & Baffle:    http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
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kaplow snipped-for-privacy@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:

NOPQ also no LEUP hassles either. Of course.
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Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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Bob Kaplow wrote:

Seems like common sense......unless there is a darker reason. ;-)

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Chuck Rudy

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Chuck Rudy wrote:

I believe I read that this is already on the agenda for the February meeting.
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