Re: faa interiors

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (EmilA1944) sent:

NOt particularly an aircraft modeler (although I've done my share in years past) but I would ask: What makes you think Testor's has it exactly right? I believe I'd tend to go with pictures of the actual aircraft first.

AA >>

I'd have to disagree with you there. Photos really are NOT the best way to go for determining color accuracy. Too much in the way of variables. The best way is to check out the real thing, barring that, this is a pretty good place to ask, lots of expertise around here. IMHO the Modelmaster British Interior Green looks pretty good from the FEW "real" bits I've seen.

Please reply to snipped-for-privacy@aol.com Don McIntyre Lancaster, PA

yep. in the brit paint section and the color was correct except the museum pictures were lighter. good quality pics, too.

i will go with the pictures. all it takes is some white to match.

well, if 3 different aircraft on 3 different sites all look the same and it's lighter, i wonder about the paint.

I'm not familiar with the Testors paint, but walking through the Sunderland at Hendon a few weeks ago suggested the interior is a lot darker than it appears in photos. Purely subjective, but another opinion, Cheers, Bill.

-- Rarebits4classics .......just what you've been looking for

PO Box 1232 Calne Wiltshire SN11 8WA United Kingdom

I'd tend towards the Modelmaster (british interior green) colour also, But bear in mind that there was a lot of variation in these colours, even with the technological improvements in paints today I still find a significant variation in so called "controled batches" of OEM paints. at the end of the day if it looks right to you that's all that counts.

why isn't there a british aircraft museum next door?

I never cease to be amazed at the amount of to-and-fro that goes on in discussion groups, magazines, club newsletters, etc regarding the "accuracy" of paint colours and hues. So many modellers seem to let themselves and their projects get bogged down in the quest for the "perfect" colour. I'm not going to enter the debate, but here's a few things to consider:

1. Consider that paint colour varies from one batch to the next. In modern paint plants where computers control the amounts of pigments being added, this is minimised (assuming of course, that the chemistry of the pigments remains constant), but under the pressures of wartime production, quality control on paint colours would certainly have been only a minor concern.

1. Consider that there is no guarantee that the colour used was the correct one at the time. For example, if a Spitfire production line ran out of Interior Green one afternoon in 1940, did production stop while the shop boy ran down to the hardware for another can of paint? Not likely! They would have taken some Dark Green (exterior camo paint) and lightened it with white to keep production rolling. Now, I'm not saying this example ever actually happened, but hey, it's possible, isn't it? I am aware that this style of paint substitution happened in the field, where a colour would be mixed to match an original from whatever paint stocks were available at the time. It certainly happened in RAAF squadrons based in North Africa and northern Australia (resulting in some odd and interesting schemes), so it's almost certain that it happened elsewhere also.

2. Consider that paint colour and hue changes very rapidly from weathering, oxidation, staining and normal wear and tear. Think about what goes on inside a cockpit - there's scuffing and scratches, oil and fuel fumes, stains and extreme changes of temperature. For example, oxidation of the paint surface usually creates a lighter hue, whereas oil stains create a darker and slightly yellowish hue. A well-used cockpit will therefore not look anything like it did when it rolled off the production line, an engine bay could be virtually any variation on the original colour and the exterior surface of a vehicle or aircraft will vary from one machine to the next, from one squadron to the next, etc.

1. Consider the location in which the subject of your model was operated. For example, in North Africa, vehicles and aircraft were exposed to very extreme conditions of heat, dust, sand, etc, which exacerbate the weathering of their paint covering. In the Pacific Theatre, there was also heat, dust, sand, in addition to rain and mud. Carrier-based aircraft were heavily exposed to the corrosive effects of salt. And on it goes. Unless an aircraft was carefully washed after each sortie and put away in a hangar, it's surface would have deteriorated very quickly, especially when exposed to salt, sun, dust, etc.

2. Consider the "scale effect" of paint hues, often discussed in modelling forums, books and magazines. A 1:72 scale aircraft or vehicle should be finished in a slightly lighter shade than the 1:1 original. I'm not aware if there's any convention or formula for this lightening of colour relative to scale - does anyone know?

1. Consider that restored aircraft and vehicles use modern paints which are produced from different pigments and bases to their original wartime counterparts. Of course, all effort is generally made to ensure authenticity, but remember that even if the paint colours and hues are spot-on with the original wartime standards, they only represent a factory-fresh finish. The colours and hues on a restored example should therefore not be assumed to provide an exact representation of a vehicle or aircraft used in combat.

So where am I going with all of this? Simply trying to demonstrate that colour chips, FS numbers and so forth are not necessarily a correct guide to finishing the latest pride and joy on your workbench. Go with whatever looks and feels right to you. After all, you are the artist and your model is your canvas.

Furthermore, if a contest judge demerits your model on the basis of incorrect colour, challenge him to provide proof that your particular example was not finished in that particular colour/hue on that particular day, 60-odd years ago.

I model mostly RAAF aircraft from WW2. Thankfully, there is a huge amount of information available on aircraft finishes through the meticulous research from people like Ian Baker-Finch and Geoffrey Pentland. Photographic evidence and personal accounts prove that there were rarely two aircraft side-by-side in the same squadron that looked identical during the war years, due to weathering, repairs, touch-ups, field colour substitution and personal crew variations. If it happened this way in the RAAF, then it seems reasonable that it happened in every other air force out there too.

Cheers all, James V.

We asked them to leave 227 years ago. :)

Bill Banaszak, MFE

oh yeah. they weren't real bright about it.

Excellent and very valid points James, take for example that today's automotive paints are mixed to very strict ratios where pigments are weighed down to 1/100th of a gram... variations still occur, under wartime conditions I doubt any such accuracy was a consideration...

a humorous example is found in the green/black camo found of WW2 soviet fighters. apparently the scheme was born not from any military directive but from a surplus of green and black tractor paint in a factory that now produced aircraft.

paint colours vary with accuracy of tinting/ age/ operational conditions/ thinning mediums/ method of application/ weather conditions at the time of application and the technique of the person applying them... to get too anal retentive over whether or not a colour is 100% accurate is simply to demonstrate a lack of understanding of the subject matter.

when it's all said and done modelling is a very individual hobby which is subject to an individuals interpretation of the references they have at their disposal. ergo: if it looks ok to you... to hell with everyone else