UK industrial design rate

Hi,
Just wondering if anyone knows the average rate for Industrial Designers/Solidworks modellers/Maxwell Renderers in the UK. I only have
3 years experience, but I'm pretty quick with Solidworks modelling and perfecting the renders. I'm getting a bit fed up with working for 8 and hour and thinking of going freelance... any ideas?
Thanks.
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Perhaps you can help me...
see the post "Looking for a solidworks help." Posted immediately after this one.
Cheers Dave.
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Hi, you could email me... I'm sure I could help, although your email doesn't seem to work.
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On 22 Feb 2006 13:38:22 -0800, will snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

Tough one to answer - I suppose it is what you can get away with :-) !
When pitching for jobs - often the rate does not come into the equation but if you want to have a comfortable figure - go for 20/hr and don't go below 15 or above 50.
The whole issue of design rates is getting very clouded by the global market , where basic drafting and modeling is now available in the far East at a fraction of the cost it is here in the UK! so we have to major on ideas and problem solving and making the design process as painless as possible :-)
TTFN
Jonathan
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Jonathan
Those figures sound about right to me - it depends what the client wants - draughting and detailing jobs usually pay towards the lower end of the scale and the more challenging jobs towards the upper end of the scale.
It's not unusual for clients to outsource both the mind numbing jobs and the b@stard jobs that no one else wants!
However, location also plays a part - usually if your London based for example the rate is usually higher than say Yorkshire.
It peeves me though that people will pay Plumbers, car mechanics etc 50-100 per hour but complain about paying 25 per hour for a designer!
Kev
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Kev
Reminds me - once I offered to design a new set of products for one company at 5 per hour less than they paid for the mechanics to service their nice fleet of Beemers parked at the front. Needless to say they did not see the joke !! Wwhen I went by a year latter they were going out of business !! Probably would have been given a rubber cheque anyway ;-)
TTFN
Jonathan
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Yep, know what you mean - at one company I worked for the MD would not sanction 30K for 1 seat each of SWX and a PC to run it on for 4 engineers - but he had no problem sanctioning around 25K each for the BMW's the dozen or so salesmen drove around in.
Funnily enough the same things happend to them!
Kev
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Interesting Beemer comment, and there are a lot of anecdotes I could recite from SoCal, including the recent driver of his Beemer, of middle-eastern ethnic orgins, doing rally driving in through a parking lot and killing someone.
I simply will not consider a Beemer, because of the absolutely regal air that is maintained in the California Beemer Dealers who seem to like to look down on potential new customers, as in "You know this BMW is VERY expensive.", meaning "As a BMW superstar, you don't look like you can afford such a vehicle".
Needless to say, my wife said no more and left.
Bo
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Just curious as to what it costs to live there? 8GBP amounts to about $14 which whould be high end at a retail store or quite common for a manufacturing job around the midwest.
Litre of petrol $0.65 Average size of fillup 55 litres, frequency; once or twice a week Loaf of bread $1.50 Litre of milk $0.65 Kg of beef $3.93 to $22.00 (hamburger to prime steak) Lunch at a decent restaurant for two $22.00 Lunch at McDonalds for one $6.00 Monthly payment on a new car $250 to $600 Monthly rent on a two bedroom apt. $600 Monthly payment on a house $1,000 to $2,000 (for 30 years) Sales tax nil to 7.25% depending on state. Food is usually exempt. Here it is 6%. Yearly tax on a house $3,000 to $7,000 Yearly tax on an engineer's salary ($50,000) $5,000 to $7,000 Insurance for the car $600 to $1,000 per year Insurance for the house $500 to $1,000 per year
And the average credit card debt carried by the average American household: $8,562
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My numbers are approximate - In general UK is expensive for housing, cars, petrol and good food - in fact I think it is expensive for everything !!. However you have to factor in, like most of EU, - free health care and generous (?) state benefits for unemployed, low incomes etc which are I believe not possible in USA. So we pay nothing for health and education. University fees are small compared to US and in Scotland they are still free. Signed up for St Andrews already !! for my kids .
The cost of housing in UK should not be under estimated - we live in small , badly build shoe boxes compared to US and Europe. However the UK is infatuated by property and the average Brit will sell his shoe box for a small fortune to move to the countryside at the first opportunity, and preferably in France, Spain, Italy etc where the weather and wine is good and the locals just don't seem to want the the hassle of a house in the middle of nowhere :-) ( this used to be a particularly English thing but I go to Scotland regularly to visit the outlaws and Scots are now just as smitten with the property bug - you can't buy a Scotish paper without the home and international 'property section' falling out and breaking your toe.)
Minimum statutory pay in UK is 5.25pounds sterling per hour - so this is what you get working in Macdonalds - Graduate engineers fare a little better and start on about 25k pa in graduate engineering jobs if they can find them !! :-)

0.9 per litre - We regularly mix metric with imperial units ;-)

once a week although my Morris Minor is not as frugal as my US built Honda Accord !

0.9
1
more than that ! - meat is expensive unlike Australia where it seemed to be free !!.

Pie and chips maybe -- Bar meal possibly but bank on 15 per head at a restaurant - Tip is optional.

Big mac meal is 3.50 I think - but this is not the supersize version

same
depends where - the above is not possible in London

No way - average house in UK is now touching 150,000 and that is for something very very small. - 2 adults and small child if you can stop it growing !! - so a mortage of 150000 is approx 1200 per month. - but most families would need a 250,000 house to live in.

VAT ( or sales tax) - 17.5% on all except cold food.

Council Tax - 1000 approx ( depends on house value) + water and sewage can add another 500

You can budget 25% of salary on all Taxes upto 40K when it goes to 40% on earnings above 40k

200 for my 2litre honda, 100 for my Morris Minor.

same
I think that is about the same here in the UK.
Americans need a wheelbarrow of cash when visiting London. The dollar rate is not good and London is just a fortune - full stop. I've just come back from a weeks holiday in London taking my small kids around the Museums etc - my God - the cost of a coffee - its outragous at 3!! - but I was lucky to make one last trip on a Routemaster Bus from Tower of London to Picadilly. Conductor said it was the last trip for the bus and it was empty! There goes 50 years of heritage :-( to be replaced by bendy busses which my 5yr son thought were fantastic !!.
The UK is following Ireland and going non - smoking so that will save people money ? perhaps.
Drugs - don't know the street price but I believe it is falling or so my 7 yr old tells me !!
Running through this list - I cannot think of one thing that that is cheaper in Britain than else where except a proper warm ale, which of course you can't get elsewhere anyway so it is not a fair comparison.
TTFN
Jonathan

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Drugs are cheap in the UK as Amsterdam and Belgium are close, but the fall in price is due to the added impurities. We pay National Health and then have to wait 3 years in pain for a operation (as I did which is not a good situation to be in at 22 years old). We pay council tax, but the fee's dont seem to add up for what you recieve. When your parents die you have to pay 40% of the total cost of their estate in Inheritance Tax which means that I have to sell all their property that they have worked hard to build/buy/develop just to fund immoral situations/activities which relate to the structure/operation of the country and government. I'd also just like to add that a train fare from my local station to London before 10am is 89. The journey takes 1 hour.
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89 quid! wow! where do you live Will.
I live just outside Oxford and from my local station (Haddenham) it takes about 50min to get to Marylebone and costs about 20 quid return per day.
Kev
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is this before 10 though? I live at Kemble in Gloucestershire.
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Yep, my price is before 9.30
Kev
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alphawave wrote:

Thats unfare. I think its because very rich Londoners are moving out to the Gloucestershire countryside.
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probably, I did the commute to London for 2 years - the cost of my mortgage plus travel costs were still less than the guys who lived there and my 1 hour commute was not much longer than their tube journey
Kev
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alphawave wrote:

Yeh I just looked up Haddenham.. its quite a bit closer to London than me. Still a pretty cheap price though. I might think of moving somewhere quiet but as near as possible to London.
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Just curious, but if you get the to your stop at 9:30 and into work at, say, 10, how long is your day?
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I start at 10 as well and finish at 6 (wake up at 7 and get home at 8.30). I used to wake up at 5 and get home at 7, but that got a bit much after 6 months.
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I wouldn't exactly count street drugs in my cost of living. I did just run across a court case in which the state attempted to levy a tax of $750,000 on an individual for possesion of a controled substance (9 pound of Mary Jane from Mexico). Taxing criminal activities is a particularly American activity and is done because, among other things, taxes are settled in civil court where the burden of proof is not as high as a criminal case.
Ah, the Routemaster. Fit them with snorkels and an upper floor drivers position and sell them to New Orleans.
The costs I gave were for the Midwest and not in a major city. When I started working I made it a point to stay away from California, Washington D.C., NewYork, Chicago, etc. simply because of the high cost of housing, commuting and crime. You will find engineer's salaries typically follow the cost of housing so that California or Washington D.C. will be in the $90k range while away from these areas will be down to 40k - 50k.
If you have decent health insurance, which most engineer's have, you will pay very little for health care and you get it when you need it. The trend now is to health savings plans and then catastrophic insurance for the rest. You can then balance the pain with the need to see the doctor, but if you have a heart attack or cancer you are covered.
Now if you go to Starbucks you can pay anywhere from $2 -$6 for a coffee, but I'll take the McDonalds coffee for 50 cents.
I think you are saying you pay some kind of income tax in addtion to VAT? We have a lot more hidden taxes, but everyone complains about income tax forgetting to add up all the little ones. King George would be jealous of the job Clinton did on us in that area.
The property tax we pay goes towards education, fire, police, roads, local government, parks, water and sewer and boondogles. Education gets the biggest share of that.
Tax on inheritance can be avoided legally for the most part and is limited in cases of small estates (like most of us would have).
I could probably take a 2,000 mile train trip here for 89 quid but probably not before 10am. The low fare and luxurious seating would be courtesy of tax subsidies. The breakdowns and lack of punctuality courtesy of not enough tax subsidies. :)
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