How To Steal A Camaro

I hope some of you who realize that you dont know it all enjoyed cracking the Ford 10 cut. You may have even learned something.

The secret squirrels are being good and restraining themselves so far which is just as well since I am immune to secret squirrel flame BS anyway. The head secret squirel has even seemed to realize that resistance is futile and I will post whatever I goddamn well want to post. I have only heard a few pathetic whimpers of prostest not really worth my time to respond to. That said there was 1 little squirell who noted that there is a quicker way than drilling the shearline on the old 5 cut. Of course in typical secret squirel fashion he didn't elaborate as that would cause him to lose membership to the secret squirel society and he would have to give back his secret squirrel decoder ring, it could also be because as far as I can tell he barely speaks English and a response in anything but his native language whatever the hell that is is beyond his capability. In any event dont worry I will address the very best method of attack in an upcoming post on that lock.

Good good secret squirels. If you continue to behave when I get into some of the high security locks and safe defeats I will send you some peanuts or whatever the hell it is secret squirrels eat.


This article is a repost. Enjoy it while I am working on some new material. How to steal or if you moral types prefer 'borrow' a rental truck will be posted soon and I am working on a piece on how to completely compromise the living hell out of an SFIC system, yes just like the one in your school, With regard to this article I have included a link to a simple tried and true schematic for a VATS bypass circuit to replace the original authors somewhat tedious and rather impractical suggestion. Note also that some 1986 and up F-bodies may not be vulnerable to the ignition defeat procedure, although I have seen many that are. Despite the rather goofy sounding name of the original author,but hey I always give fucking credit where its due, and I didnt tell him or her to pick that goofy penname, the rest of the information is good notwithstanding what I have remarked on above.

***************************start original text*************************

The Step-by-Step Guide to Stealing a Camaro


Spy Ace

PURPOSE: To describe step-by-step, with specificity, exactly how the average person might accomplish with skill and alacrity, the theft of a motor vehicle, particularly 1982-1993 Chevrolet Camaros, Pontiac Firebirds and similar beasts.

MOTIVE: While I am a telecommunications enthusiast, I am also a basically honest, law-abiding working man. In 1989 an individual driving a borrowed automobile struck my only means of transportation, a 1986 Chevrolet Camaro, totalling it. My vehicle was parked and unoccupied at the time. In an amazing feat of legal maneuvering, and after protracted judicial proceedings, all parties involved managed to escape liability and I was left without a car or reimbursement. The insurance companies are lying, cheating scum. As a result, I took matters into my own hands and stole a replacement car. I came to the conclusion that the justice system in this country exists only to protect the strong from the weak, the haves from the have-nots and the rich from the not rich. It has nothing to do with rectifying wrongs. It is therefore incumbent upon all aggrieved parties to seek personal satisfaction when the American legal system fails to provide it. My motive is thus twofold:

  1. To see the evil insurance companies screwed some more by sharing my knowledge of car-thieving techniques with those who might apply them.

  1. To assist the little man in obtaining justice when he/she may by confronted with a situation similar to mine.

BACKGROUND: Before I stole my car, I conducted extensive research and talked to a number of individuals in the automotive repossession field, law-enforcement, and several auto mechanics. I assure the reader that everything contained in this file is true to the best of my knowledge and that I HAVE ACTUALLY DONE WHAT I AM WRITING ABOUT. I am not writing hypothetically; I speak from experience. I urge the reader, if he is serious about stealing a vehicle, to verify my research and find out much of this information for himself. Auto shops at local high schools/community colleges are excellent places to experiment and learn, and auto repossession specialists are invaluable sources of information.


So, you've decided to steal a car. How nice. In this article I will be covering in detail exactly how I stole a 1988 Chevrolet Camaro to replace the 1986 of mine that was destroyed by an irresponsible driver. The techniques described herein will work on

1982 thru 1993 Chevy Camaros/Z28s/IROCs/Berlinettas and probably the same years Pontiac Firebirds and Trans Ams. With regard to the Pontiacs I cannot say for certain because I only experimented on Camaro variety cars since that is what I was after. The Pontiacs are very similar, however, and I believe this information to be applicable to them.

There are basically only two stages to obtaining possession of a vehicle. First, one must gain actual physical access to the inside of the car and second, one must disable the steering-lock mechanism and activate the ignition. Once these two things have been accomplished, the vehicle is yours, subject to the infuriated efforts of the owner to regain it. It should be noted, of course, that there may be complications associated with either of these steps, such as alarm systems or the factory anti-theft mechanisms. I will deal with both of these in turn.

First, gaining entrance to the vehicle. This will require one tool: a 24-inch aluminum "shop" ruler. I tried several and settled on the Pickett brand ACF-24, available in most art/blueprint supply stores. It consists of a 1.25x24x1/16 inch piece of aluminum. For maximum efficiency, it should have two slight bends to it. First, at 14 inches, bend it subtly to about 15 degrees. Then, at 19 inches on the ruler, bend it back so that the two sections are parallel. Like this: N _________________ W + E \_______ S

Of course, the angle in this diagram is far too steep. Both angles should only be about 15 degrees. Hopefully, you get the idea. If not, you probably shouldn't be thinking about stealing a car. In any case, if you have succeeded in fashioning this, you are now armed with the only tool necessary to gain keyless entry into your soon-to-be new Camaro. The application of this tool is simple. Walk up to a Chevrolet Camaro of a year described above, position yourself at either door. FIRST: Check to see if the door is unlocked. You'd be surprised. If it isn't, you will need to insert the tool straight down, in between the rubber weather-stripping and the glass, approximately 4-5 inches from the back of the door, directly in line with the door-lock. Insert the tool such that the small section (see above diagram) is thrust down into the door (did I mention that stealing a car is very sexual? Never mind...). The small section of the tool should be bent TOWARDS you as you stand at the car. In the above diagram, north is towards the car, west is straight up in the air, east is straight down towards the inside of the door, and south is towards you as you stand at the car. Got the picture? If not, get a friend to explain it to you.

The tool should go in about 16 inches until it catches the lock mechanism. If it goes in further than about 17 inches, withdraw and try again. Drive straight down, don't force, try moving your position an inch to the right or left. Eventually you will feel the lock mechanism. It will be rigid but a little spongy (epitome of GM engineering). Press down hard on the tool and let up. Try the door handle. Does it open? It probably will. If not, drive a little harder and keep trying the door. It will give eventually.

WHY THIS WORKS: Well, this works for two reasons. First of all, General Motors is run by a bunch of cheap bastards and their cars are designed by engineers who couldn't find their asses with both hands. Basically, it's a shitty lock mechanism. It was designed shitty and the clods who sell us the piece-of-shit cars couldn't care less if they get stolen so they've never bothered to redesign the damn thing.

In order to understand exactly why it works, the curious reader would be well advised to go to his local library and look in a Clymer or Chilton automotive repair manual for 1986 (or thereabouts) Camaro. In Chapter 12 of the Chilton, under "Body" (page

290 of mine) there is a magnificently concise exploded diagram of "Outside door lock assembly" which contains all the relevant information. The lock cylinder itself is connected to some linkage which activates the locking/unlocking mechanism. After a few months of normal use, this linkage develops some "slop" in it due to slight wear of the locking cylinder attachment. By pressing down on the linkage down inside the door, you are activating the (un)locking mechanism directly and there is enough play in the locking cylinder to allow it to give. Take a look at the diagram and you'll understand completely.

Once I understood the locking mechanism, the deficiencies therein, and formulated an approach to overcoming it, I practiced on a friend's Camaro about a hundred times. If done properly and carefully, this will in no way harm any part of the car or locking mechanism. Try it on the driver's side first; this is usually the easiest because it has the most wear in the linkage. Then graduate to the passenger side door. Then try it out about a hundred times, then with your eyes closed, then while drunk, then with one hand tied behind your back. In a day or two you'll be able to get into a Camaro in less than ten seconds.

A note about alarms: some clever individuals, in an effort to keep their prized vehicles from being stolen by the likes of you, have equipped them with a motion sensor or other devious device which tends to emit a shrill series of tones when aggravated. I suggest that before trying to open someone else's car, you first give it a good rocking back and forth in order to set off any alarm which might be present. Since it is not illegal (though it may be physically dangerous) to rock someone's car, it's always best to try this before actually breaking in. If the alarm screams, go on to some other victim. Personally, I have encountered very few alarms; the "it won't happen to me" attitude is still prevalent.

Once you've gained physical entry into the vehicle, you are now ready for Step Two, ignition lock bypass. Unfortunately, this is a difficult step. I did a tremendous amount of research to determine the best way to deal with this problem and have developed an approach. It is by no means the only way to breach the ignition locking mechanism, but in my opinion it is the best. In developing this method I was most interested in several goals. First of all, I wanted an elegant solution; that is, something simple. Minimum tools and work required, and something that worked ALL THE TIME, not 50%. Second, I wanted an approach that could be accomplished quickly (for obvious reasons) and with minimum damage to the vehicle. Ideally, I wanted an attack which would not even be immediately obvious to someone (such as a cop) glancing in my car at a stoplight. Spending 30 minutes tearing apart the steering column might allow you to get the car started, but it won't meet the above criteria: speed, elegance, reliability, invisibility.

The problem is that to do this requires a special tool and to get this tool one must either send away for it or have access to a machine shop to fabricate one. Neither of these is quick and easy, but the preparation is well worth it. Here's the basic idea. The General Motors vehicle uses an ignition locking mechanism called a "sidebar." This is basically one nasty piece of hardened fucking steel which blocks the lock cylinder from rotating when a properly-fitting key is not in place. It makes it impossible to simply "shear off the pins" by brute-force turning with a screwdriver or similar device. The solution is to use a tool capable of cracking the lock cylinder housing in which the sidebar sits. The cylinder housing itself is cast aluminum, which is considerably weaker than the sidebar itself, so when the proper force is applied it will be the housing which gives, not the sidebar. But no matter.

First, get access to a Camaro, or for this exercise, just about any GM automobile since 1978 (the year they got the bright idea to put a locking screw in to keep people from just ripping the whole ignition lockset right out -- but that's a whole different story...). My favorite place to experiment on cars without being observed (and in fact legally) is to go to a local self-serve auto-wrecking "You Pull It" yard. They have these in many cities around the fruited plains; you pay a buck or two to get in and then go pluck parts from rotting American classics. If you don't drag any parts out, you can basically tear apart all the cars you want for a buck. If you don't have a You-Pluck-It nearby or are philosophically opposed to vehicular cannibalism, then use the method previously described to break into someone's Camaro for this.

Once you have access to a GM (preferably a Camaro), get a screwdriver out and pry the outer ring off of the ignition set. The ring I'm talking about is the thing with the two tabs on it for your fingers to turn when you rotate the ignition to start the car. Just pry that sucker off of there -- it comes off very easily as it is affixed by two small gripping tabs. I can usually remove it by hand, but it's easiest to simply pry gently with a screwdriver. After you have pried that off of the ignition set, take a look. You'll see the ignition cylinder (with the keyway), the outer housing, and the actual ignition activation mechanism, which has two slots in it (where the outer ring fit into before you pried it off). This ignition linkage, with the two tabs, is what turns when a fitting key is inserted into the keyway and then turned. Note that in a GM ignition set, a fitting key serves only to withdraw the sidebar to allow the outer ignition mechanism to turn.

The problem is to overcome the sidebar which prevents the ignition from turning. Fortunately, there is a tool for this very purpose. It is manufactured by Briggs and Stratton (yes, the lawn mower engine people) who happen to also make the locksets for GM. They make the locks. They make the tool to break the locks. You figure it out. Anyway, this neat little device is called a "GM Force Tool". I got mine from LDM Enterprises in Van Nuys, California (where else?) and it ran me about $90. Their fone number is

800-451-5950 and you should probably tell them that you're in the automotive repossession business if you go to order one of these. If they won't sell you one (because someone at GM read this article and hopped up and down) then simply go down to a local repo man and pay him an extra $25 to order one for you. Most of those guys are pretty sleazy and will do just about anything for a buck. If you have access to a machine shop and are reasonably competent, go ahead and make one.

I will attempt a description. Don't feel stupid if you don't get this; it's difficult to describe it in text. Drop me E-mail and I'll send you a .GIF of the fucking thing. Anyway, it looks basically like a socket with very thin walls and two small tabs which fit into where the thumb-ring-thing used to go. You tap it onto the ignition set, into the two slots and the outside walls of the tool fit very snugly around the outside of the locking mechanism to keep it from splitting apart as you turn it. On the other end of the tool is a 1/2 inch square hole for a ratchet. Got the idea? Tap it onto the ignition, attach a healthy sized ratchet and turn slowly but forcefully. After about 30 degrees of turn the sidebar will crack the ignition lock housing and the whole mechanism will freely turn. If you don't understand this, take a look at a GM ignition (sans outer ring) and the facts will become readily apparent. If you have access to a machine shop, it is a simple matter to make one of these tools. Go to your local GM dealer and buy a whole ignition set, snap the outer ring off of there and take your measurements. Remember that the inner wall of the force tool must fit snugly around the lockset in order to keep it from splitting apart. That is why a device with simply two tabs which fit into the ignition linkage will not work (I tried it -- the metal is too soft and tears apart).

Seem like too much work? Well, of course it is a bit of work, but preparation is the key! My father always stressed that the most important part of doing a job is having the right tools. The tools in this case are KNOWLEDGE of how all these goofy parts fit together and operate, a properly constructed force tool, and the patience to apply these two components to bring about the desired result. With some practice I was able to circumvent a Camaro ignition in just under 30 seconds. It does very little actual damage to the vehicle ($11.00 for a new ignition set) and in fact the thumb-ring-thing can be jammed back on and a key inserted and it will appear that everything is proper (in case you're pulled over by the local constable).



Because of the horrendous problems with car theft, particularly of Camaros, GM came up with a neat system boldly dubbed the "Vehicle Anti Theft System". Needless to say, as with most security devices, VATS accomplished little more than being a nuisance to vehicle owners and a minor inconvenience to car thieves. Here's how to defeat it.

First, basic theory of operation. The ignition of a VATS equipped vehicle (most 1988 and newer GMs, particularly the Camaros/Firebirds) is the same as the normal GM ignition except that it has an electronic sensor built in which requires activation by a resistor pack built in to the owner's key. There are fifteen possible resistor types, so each different VATS key that you have gives you a 6.7% chance of being capable of activating the ignition. The catch is that if you feed it the wrong one it will kill the ignition for 4 minutes. Thus, if you had a complete set of fifteen VATS keys, it would take you a maximum of one hour to run through them all. This is GM's idea of security: annoy the thief.

If you plan to tackle a VATS-equipped car, get a full set of the fifteen VATS keys. They're a few bucks each and you can get them from a locksmith or LDM. Obtain access to your target car in an area and in such circumstances as will allow you to work for an hour relatively undisturbed. In practice, this is not very difficult (more on that later). Once you have access to the vehicle and are satisfied that you can work unobserved, break the ignition lock using your force-tool as described above. Insert your first VATS key blank and attempt to start the vehicle. If it will not activate the ignition, remove the key, wait four minutes and try the next one. Eventually you'll hit it. (Median hit time, of course: 30 minutes). Drive away.

Scouting a Victim


An essential element of stealing a car without getting caught is picking out the right one. Again, preparation is the key. Once you've mastered the necessary techniques, start looking around for a good place to pick up a vehicle. The car thieves that I spoke with told me that their preferred places are mall parking lots at night: there is a lot of activity so you probably won't be noticed lurking around waiting for a good prospect to show up. People usually go into the mall for several hours to buy crap, so you have time to work. Wait until no one is looking and pounce. Once you are inside the vehicle (which, with practice, may be accomplished in

15 seconds) you are home free. No one is going to pay any attention to you screwing around inside the vehicle and you'll be long gone by the time the owner finishes charging a new Salad Shooter on his American Express. Another good place is airport parking lots. While they are often sporadically patrolled, it is in practice a simple matter to drive around until you spy the right vehicle, then pack all your necessary tools into a suitcase and walk from the terminal to the lot like a returning airline passenger. That's how I did it. The car was not reported stolen for over two weeks (it was in the long-term lot), giving me plenty of breathing room.

There are numerous other places. Start noting the places that you leave your car: supermarket, movie theater, in front of your house, at work, in a parking garage, etc. Start noticing patterns. That 1988 IROC you see parked in the same place for five hours every Tuesday. When you actually commit the deed, BE PREPARED. Do a dry run. Be calm, work quickly but carefully. Act like you belong where you are -- don't lurk around nervously. Walk right up to the car and steal it. If confronted by someone, try to talk your way out of it. Don't get violent: it's just a thing. A car is not worth hurting someone over. Don't worry about getting caught: most cities can't cope with the crime epidemic and do not bother to do much about auto theft.

What Do I Do With It?


That's up to you. Take it for a joy ride. If you boosted it from an airport lot you can probably safely cruise around in it for a week or two. Go pick up bimbos and drive them to Las Vegas. Or sell the thing to a chop shop (you're on your own finding them; I have no experience with them). Tear it apart yourself and sell the parts. Drive it into the lobby of an insurance company building. Or go buy a Camaro of the same year and model that has been totalled out and switch the VIN plates once you have clear title. That's not a particularly difficult affair, although some skill is required to remove the VIN tags and install them in your new car. Have fun! Stay out of trouble. If you have any questions, E-mail me. Above all, keep in mind that two things are essential to steal a car without getting caught: PRACTICE and PREPARATION. Good luck!

-->Spy Ace<--

*************************end original text*****************************

VATS bypass schematic link

formatting link
With regard to the authors suggestion for VIN plate switching you should note that most insurance sale vehicles will now show up as salvage in DMV and other records. The answer here is to find a car from a private owner which has never been reported as salvage. Note also that titles can be easily obtained for VIN numbers belonging to older vehicles from many title mill type companies. Do a web search on classic car titles or something like that. Obviously non one should attempt to title for a VIN reported as stolen. You are probably saying No, duh, Really. Yes really keep in mind that people like Evan the Maintenance man read this group and every damn thing must be spelled out for them. Not that I would ever think that anyone would use this information to steal a car and if you do and get busted as usual it is your own damn problem.

Reply to
Loading thread data ...


I would be more than willing to bet that many of your so called 'secret squirrels' have put you on their ignore list...

That being said, this post should probably by made in a newsgroup for stealing cars if there is such a group...

Locksmiths are honest people (for the most part, as it seems that a few out there have attracted negative attention) who live and work by a code of ethics... Posting materials such as you have clearly indicates that you do not take any of those principles to heart at all... This latest post only proves that beyond any doubt...

Maybe you could start your own group alt.thief, alt.thieves.dishonest or something along those lines...

Who are you trying to fool here, you post this information here 'for informational purposes only' by you damn well intend for someone to steal a car somewhere and you know it... Then you babble on about VIN switching and title fraud... I just hope that you realize that it is dishonest people like yourself that create so many of the problems that truly honest people must live with in the course of our daily lives...

Then you have the balls to say that if someone uses your 're-post' of someone else's work that it is not your fault... I hope that someone does do it and gets caught and tells the authorities exactly where they found the instructions on how to do it... who is also so chicken that he or she needs to post to newsgroups from google...

Just a thought...

Evan the Maintenance Man

Reply to

Then there are people like me in texas, who own guns, and would be looked at as a hero would for whacking a criminal. All I get out of this whole thing is very simple; Darwin had a good point.

Reply to

you sure sound like freddie the wire !

Reply to

Yea, I kinda miss ole' Freddie. Seems he faded away after we found out who he was and posted part of it one letter at a time until he got the message. Who was that who did that? He must have been smart at tracking! Ole' Freddie was hid behind 4 or 5 hidden servers. I remember the poor guy sweating toward the end.

Reply to
Glen Cooper


we found out who

got the message.

tracking! Ole'

the poor guy

this guy defiantly has some of Freddie's traits.

Reply to

No. Freddie was much better at it. This guy is soooooo obviously trolling. Freddie at least (I think) believed his own BS. This Smartass's (his mom sure picked a good name, didn't she) primary gold is too look like an Ass. Pretty sad really.

Reply to
Bob DeWeese, CML

I also don't remember anybody ever identifying him and posting any real evidence to back it up. I do remember a lot of accusations being made and the person posting all the letters, if I'm not mistaken, coming to the final conclusion that Freddie was a "juvenile troll" which, let's face it, wasn't a big jump after his very first two or three posts.

I also doubt freddie much cared about whether he was identified since as far as I can see he never made any effort to hide his connection and some clever social enginering might well have ferreted out who he was. Assuming of course his billing information was traceable to him, which is a big assumption.

Reply to

Reply to

That and, as of yet, the information is pretty irrelevant. The Camaro article has been on usenet for years. The brute force method for

10-cuts is obvious to anyone with half a brain and google. There are more professional, and damage free methods to do bypass both ignitions. The articles amount to dicussing the weaknesses of ~10 year old cars...which the shift to 8-cut and 10 cut locks is making obsolete...not to mention transponders.

OT: does anyone know if the insurance companies were pressuring auto manufacuters to impliment transponder keys? The insurance companies in Europe and the UK have definitely been a major reason for the prevalence of high quality door locks. Well, that and the prevalence of sport lockpicking, I suppose.

Reply to

I did the get rid of Freddie thing. What happened that gave him away was that he switched e-mail addresses from yahoo to webtv and kept the same subject at that time. His excuse was that his hard drive crashed on his regular computer and he switch to webtv. After finding his identity and phone number, I made a phone call and talked to his sister. I didn't let on what was going on. After giving up on locksmith, he switched over to hacking phones and evesdropping on cell phones, etc. He sent me several threatening e-mails, but that's all they were, just threats. I didn't follow up on him as he did stop posting info from books that he had. By the way, he later on put up the locksmith books and stuff for sale on e-bay.


Reply to

:-) Funny

How old was he? My guess 18

Reply to
Glen Cooper

There are no quicker ways. 30-60 sec max for either method. End of story.

Dont worry. Im going to be getting into many other defeats that are plenty current. Look for the upcoming SFIC post. Im also in the beginning stages of putting together one on how to crack the Medeco and similar sidebars with homemade tools. I should probably do one on cracking the Ford 8 cut and GM 10 cut as well. The irony is that if your half ass industry had done something about many of the defeats Im gonna talk about instead of trying to keep them one big secret I would have to work a lot harder to come up with material. Oh well.

Reply to

I'm sure that you can do an excellent job rehashing stuff that's already avalible on the internet elsewhere, but what's the point...that you know how to type? If you've been around here for a while, you'd have noticed that I firmly believe that the cat is totally out of the bag on most mechanical lock weaknesses already.

Telling us how to drill a SFIC or pick the control shear is nearly irrelevant, the best known maker of Finch style tools has nice pictures on their website explaining it in great detail. Are you going to tell us about breaking the sidebar on medeco cam locks....its also already common knowledge, witness our discussion of stealthbypassel. Are you going to talk about drilling Ford 8 cut and GM 10...anyone that can look at A1's catalog and think can figure that out...and transponders make it damn near irrelevant. Why do you think that Ford canned the sidebar: its because they know that needing an NGS tool made it pointless.

All you can do is post stuff that is already freely avalible elsewhere on usenet to PO the secret squirrels...

Reply to

"somesmartass" trolled in message

---snip the troll---

you defiantly have no Ethics about you. no need to reply because there is just no defense to being unethical.


Reply to


is making

defeats that are

in the

the Medeco

probably do one on

is that if

the defeats Im

secret I would



more like cut & paste :-)

Reply to

Are you


what is stealthbypassel?

Reply to

You've got to realize that this is a phrase of 3 words crammed together, with the middle one being an acronym.

A "passel" is a "big bunch of them" - and this phrase is about stealing the passel.

Then you've got to recognize the acronym for "toasty hot buttered yams" and you're there!

Reply to
Henry E Schaffer

The first truely intelligent thing I think I have heard here yet!! Amazing. As far as your rehashing comment well not exactly. For example why dont you show me where on Usenet somebody has discussed something as basic as forcing the 10 cut? Im waiting. Also unfortunately there is just a ton of Bullshit on Usenet and the rest of the net about some half ass non working defeat for this or that. Thats why I post my info here because we all know that if any of what I was saying didnt work somebody would say so. They cant help it. Look at all the idiots who have already responded even though I forwarned them I could care less and would be ignoring them anyway.

Actually I wasnt planning on discussing the cam locks but thanks for reminding me perhaps I will include that. I am going to be talking about the deadbolts commonly used on store fronts industrial doors etc.

Bob Bob Bob Im dissapointed. Why drill the 8 cut? That piece of crap forces as easily as the 10 cut. Thanks for reminding me Ill post a shorty on it in a minute no need to drill it. A locksmith like yourself ought to know that. I know you arent trying to keep the knowledge secret because you yourself said the cat was already out of the bag. You gotta keep up Bob. No excuse for you not knowing that. Also transponders dont render the locks mechanical protection pointless since in a lot of cases towing is vastly simplified by unlocking the wheel.

Well if the secret squirrels were all as intelligent and reasonable as you Bob it wouldnt piss them off because they would realize that there is NO reason to keep any of this stuff secret and every reason to shout it from the rooftops, well other than because they have kept it secret from their customers for years. But who cares? Those are just the people who pay them their salaries THEY certainly arent entitled to know the glaring weaknesses of their locks.

Reply to

PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.