China Trains

um... cos they are better?

The reason why jobs are leaving for China is that the average Chinese makes 27 cents an hour. Since our _minimum_ wage is approximately 22 times that, well, go figure.

The one thing that ticks me off about global trade is all that hauling back and forth across the ocean is chewing up finite amounts of fuel oil. It's about

7-8000 miles across the Pacific and those ships are getting roughly 10s to hundreds of yards per gallon, if that. That's a LOT of oil per trip. The problem is, nobody figures _that_ into the equation. The notion that it's a finite supply, I mean.

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"

When the oil runs out there's always galley slaves.

Welcome to WalMart; ya want fries with that?

Obviously it is a lowhanded attempt to circumvent Union Pacific's licensing agreement. Those bastards!

I'm guessing here, but I reckon shipping manufactured goods across the Pacific would use less oil per item than the oil that would be used by yanks driving to and from work each day to make the same goods.

Regards, Greg.P.

I suspect that Chinese factories and workers are much more energy-efficient than US factories and workers are; and I would measure transportation efficiencies in ton-miles per gallon, and not just miles per gallon.

Why did you just state "yanks" driving. It could be any nation, Canadians or Kiwis. Do you look at your nation the same way you look at the US. Marty Hall

I just ordered a Kato N scale Rio Grande F3 AB set. It was only $3.00 higher than the other roads that are not related to the UP agreement. I didn't find that small amount to be a problem. Thanks Marty Hall

energy-efficient

Actually, the Chinese are much less efficient and heavy polluters. That is why a thick reddishbrown cloud hangs permanently over Beijing. It is also why the US will not take the blame for the world's pollution. The lower the level of industrialization, the lower the energy efficiency.

Jim Stewart

Whatever you say, John

If they're paid, will they be wage slaves?

Never! Or at least as seldom as I can get away with!

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"

1) Are the said Yanks driving SUVs or rice rockets? Uh,...answered my own question there. Land of the Truck and the Home of the SUV. 2) Stuff typically arrives on the west coast. It's still 3,100 miles to New York, and farther to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia! More oil for the trucks.

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"

Well, because sometimes you can't get them here. As pointed out below, the wages paid to Chinese factory workers are well below the equivalent Western worker's. This can be even lower, as the Chinese government and businesses do not think twice about using prisoners or force 'slave' labor, and because peasents coming in from the overcrowded farming communities provide a steady flow of 'serf' labour to be exploited. So many (too many) western companies started what has become a 'race to the bottom' (and don't think they'd hesitate to jump someplace cheaper when it appears, perhaps Malaysia or Sub-saharan Africa) Yes, it provides somewhat cheaper products to North Americans (and Europeans too), but I have read where we pay maybe 50 cents less in the US, it costs 3 or more dollars less to make (with shipping), and that extra 2.50 goes right into the CEO/Company Board Members pockets (stuff the investor...). Hmm rich guys getting richer doesn't seem to help me any. Man, just another lovely depressing trend to think about in 'The World's Greatest Hobby' - beautifully detailed locomotives that few can afford, no more kits to actually accomplish building something with, no one under the age of 30 entering the hobby, extremely limited runs that if you blink you miss them, the death and burial of the LHS, Horizon selling Athearn products only to those who guess the secret password, the same 5 guys rehashing the same 5 articles for Model Railroader - crap, how long ago was it again when "Model Railroading Was Fun"?

One certainly doesn't have the pollution control expenses there.

I don't know about energy efficiency, but I suspect that in China human labor is cheaper than machine labor. Machines cost about the same pretty much wherever you are. I've already shown that Chinese labor is at least 20 times cheaper than US human labor.

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"

Salvé

You are correct about the chinese being polluters however...here in Europe the pollution comes from two sources 1 the USa 2 the former USSR, of the two the most worrying is the USA, the USA has the ability to do something about their exportd pollution yet under Bush have refused to do anything about it, have gone back on treaties etc Russia has a collapsing industry and society and cant afford to rebuild which is why the eec is starting to pay for environmental control systems in the former USSR, the dead forests of Bohemia being the terror scenario for tomorrow today so to speak. The use of chinese factories to produce better models is purely an economic one, personally I dont have a problem using convict labour, a genuine convict should do something useful during their time in prison! (political prisoners arent genuine convicts...) as long as we arent prepared to pay huge prices for our models then the manufacturers will go to china, just look at the rcent furor over UP on this NG!! Greed seems to be the diving force behind both us and the manufacturers, my outfit which I am finally starting needs at most three loco's and an assortment of special waggons , assuming I dont go ng and build an african layout which is starting to interest me..or that Indian ng layout its possible to build an Iraqi layout in OO...... perhaps building my chocolate factory layout should be enough and I should stop reading magazines so I can actually get further than just building the buildings...... shee Beowulf

HEY!! You forgot about the Mini Van.

That's what we have intermodals for.

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higher than the other roads that are not related to the UP agreement.< Wonder why that is, I thought the government refused to give the DRGW logo to UP and declared it public domain.

Are you thinking of this?

applies to the "Main Line Rio Grande Thru the Rockies" trademark only.

Thank you. I hadn't noticed stuff becoming any cheaper with jobs moving to China. Jobs move to China, prices DON'T go down. At best they stay the same, which means huge profits for the company.

Jay CNS&M North Shore Line - "First and fastest"