Re: Byron Creek site updated

>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Mark Newt>> >>
>> >> > Terry Flynn wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Whats the next thing he will be telling us. That the classic american
>> >> balwin 4-4-0 never ran in NSW.
>> >>
>> >
>> > What a Baldwin 4-4-0 has to do with this thread I don't know.
>> What I was making the comment you
>> > I do know
>> > that the Baldwin 4-4-0 locomotives were a poor second compared to > English
>> > 4-4-0
>> > designs which the NSWGR had.
>> I wouldn't necessarily say that. In certain areas the quality of the
>> workmanship and the materials used in construction of the British engines
>> in particular the 12 class were far superior to the Baldwins. As > performers
>> they did do well in their early days with quite a few speed and load
>> records to their credit and had some good design features that suited New
>> South Wales conditions down to the ground, such as long smoke boxes and
>> large grate areas. Another thing was that the Balwins were far lighter on
>> the track than what the British engines were. I think that given the
>> choice of working one of the Balwins or the 12 class in their original > form
>> I think you would want to work in the far more comfortable cab of the
>> Baldwin. What would have been the most spectaular of all the Baldwins to
>> see in operation would have been the big J's which would have pushed the
>> NSWGR loading gauge to its sheer limits. But as to the quality of the
>> finished product Beyer-Peocock built a far better loco than what Baldwin
>> did at the time. But then you have to understand that the Balwin's that
>> were built to last for a certain period of time and no longer. While the
>> Brits built their export locos to give the longest possible life. >>
> In the above chapter, are you saying the Baldwin 4-4-0's had the load and
> speed records or are you talking about the later J class.
Against other passenger engines in use at the time the U with a set of
Jackson and Sharp cars beat the existing record for Sydney-Eskbank and
return by aprox 10-15 min. With the equalised design of both the leading
bogie and driving wheels caused far less wear and tear on the track than
the ridgid British designs that were in use on the NSWGR at the time. As to
the both the little and big J's they for their time totaly changed the way
freight trains were operated in this state.

If the Baldwin
> 4-4-0 is lighter, then it can not pull more than a heavier 12 class > locomotive.
Are you talking in theory or in practice?? As a loco with a certain
tractive effort with a small grate and evaporate surface area is not going
to produce that tractive effort over a long period of time compared to a
steam engine with a large grate and evaporative surface area rated at the
same tractive effort.

The long smoke boxes were not much better on these earlier
> engines, because on later designs our engineers continued with UK > practice.
That is such a stupid statement.
If you care to note that a number of 12 class and 17 class engines for that
matter had their smoke boxes extended so as to prevent tubes blocking under
hard steaming. Dont be stupid or are you just saying this to shit stir
hoping to get a response from Mark Newton.
The same goes for frames and cabs, sticking with UK practice,
> which produced a lower maintenance cab and stronger mainframes. As for the
> J class, when a new 2-8-0 was designed by the NSWGR, the engineers said > the T was a
> combination of the best UK and US ideas. Again it had a steel cab, not a
> high maintenance to hot for NSW wooden cab.
Yes but would *you* want to work in an exposed cab like what the 12 class
was when introduced??? I think not.

By stating the above opinion on loco cabs you really show your lack of
knowledge on the conditions that railwaymen of the time had to operate.
The difference in grate area
> of both 2-8-0 locomotives was minimal and UK practice of plate frames,
> inside valve chests and short smoke box was continued.
In other words you are saying that the J's influenced the design of 50
Remember we are interested in what you know, not what you don't know which
appear to enjoy showing us.
Reply to
Greg Rudd
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