Re: Typical MR Mag Reader - Did You Know

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:31:15 UTC, "Wolf Kirchmeir" wrote: 2000

I count 55 years, and that is in HO and building it myself.

Reply to
Ernie Fisch
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Well, if you count all those years between 12 and 40 where I could dream...

I was on-track until August of last year.

Sounds about right.

Jay Modeling the North Shore & North Western C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955 Due to spam, all e-mails except those from selected addresses will be refused. Thanks for your understanding.

Reply to
JCunington

There's always the old fashioned way, but I guess not to many people believe in that anymore.

Andy

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Reply to
Andy Harman

Getting a college education has been the "old-fashioned way" for generations.

Reply to
Mark Mathu

I think I just figured out why we don't usually get along.

There are other places to get an education which, by the way, is a continuous and life-long process. I don't begrudge anyone who has gone through the process. My daughter is presently working on her PhD. I'm impressed with her determination - especially after getting a late start. And I'm impressed with her tolerance of the system. It's a valuable skill, and I think the ability to tolerate bullshit is of major value, and it's definately something a college student has to develop in order to graduate. I have a low tolerance, and while it gives me certain disadvantages (like I'll never be able to get a job at GE, IBM, or Dow Jones) it has other intangible advantages.

That said, I think college is oversold, and I think graduates emerge with false expectations as to their qualifications and earning power in the real world. My parents both had degrees, my mom has two masters degrees... so I got the whole treatise growing up. I also observed quite candidly that in spite of my parents' education, we were still, well -- not too far above dirt poor :-)

My parents' generation believed fully that anyone without a college degree could only find work in a steel mill, a coal mine, or driving a truck. I jumped into the business world cold with one year of college (poorly executed) and I've never looked back. I guess it was another

15 years before my mom stopped thinking I'd run into a brick wall, give up, and go back to school. Things have changed.

But one thing hasn't: There is no substitute, nor shortcut, for experience. Would I be better at what I do today had I completed a

4-year degree, and entered the work force in 1980 instead of 1977? That's impossible to say. I think I did all right under the circumstances. And if I do ever go back to school, it won't be a career move- it will be to take music or art courses. Bottom line is, I dropped out of college not because of some great belief I could be another Carl Lindner - Cincinnati's richest (and smartest) businessman who didn't even finish high school. I dropped out because I could not stand another minute of it. Sometimes you follow the path, sometimes you make your own. No regrets here.

Andy

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Reply to
Andy Harman

A college education opens windows of opportunity that a person would never experience without one.

Reply to
Mark Mathu

I don't disagree with you at all Andy but here's the current problem. When the resumes go in one of the first things they look at is education. Those without degrees go in the circular file. Very, very seldom will they even interview anyone without a degree.

Reply to
Jon Miller

Isn't that the truth! A few months ago I was meeting with our financial adviser, mostly working out plans for what was left after my Uncle Sam got his cut of the money. Although it wasn't the #1 reason for the meeting, he ran through some numbers of what it would cost to send our kids to college. It seemed like a prudent thing to do because 1) baby #3 arrived a few month earlier and 2) he has the software to quickly make an estimate.

So, after making a few guesses about rates of return and using the costs of my and my wife's alma maters (Marquette and Northwestern, respectively), I found out that four years of education (including room and board) for the newborn with cost "only" $350,000 to $470,000, which I can "easily" finance by a simple payment of $120,000 - $160,000 right now!

Ouch.

Reply to
Mark Mathu

found out that four years of education (including room and board) for the newborn with cost "only" $350,000 to $470,000< I guess sending kids off to college is ok but if one wants to complain about the money they need to rearrange their thought patterns. My daughter is going to a state university (happens to be within driving distance and she just enrolled as a Junior) and took her first two years at a JC (all transferable units). The state university is $800 a quarter and it has as good a rep as any other. In fact it's noted for business degrees. So her 4 year degree is less than 5K including gas. Of course living at home and being close to the schools helps!

Reply to
Jon Miller

So does the military, the Peace Corps, starting your own business... you obviously believe in only one way, so I won't waste any more bandwidth.

Andy

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Reply to
Andy Harman

Institutions exist to feed institutions. Colleges prepare people to work in big business, which follows the same systematic dogma - that judges people only by their accumulated paperwork. I've never been interested in that kind of career and the use of the circular file works both ways.

There is a whole other world out there, where the rules are different.

Here's one anecdote for you: In the 12 years I was self-employed, I not only did all my own programming, training, traveling, designing, and implementing, I also did my own selling. Not once did any customer or prospect ever ask about my education. I always found it intrigueing that had I applied for a job, they would have been a lot more picky about my paperwork. But as an independent - costing 2x to

3x what a salaried employee would have for the same amount of work - no questions.

The one and only job I ever got through anything close to conventional means was interesting - I ran a gauntlet of interviews over a 2-month period. They weren't concerned about my lack of college, at the time I had 14 years experience and a proven track record, they were just concerned about my ability to be a "team player" since I had been self employed and/or worked for very small (less than 10) companies. This company had 100 employees at the time and considered itself "small". It felt to me like I was going to work for IBM. Was good experience but I left after 3 years because I was making triple my salary doing contract work on the side.

Andy

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Reply to
Andy Harman

Young people don't like this hobby in an scale. O and S will die first, followed by HO and the smaller sales. Garden railroads will endure for awhile, because they are outside among real people, rather then in dingy basements where only the dedicated are allowed to enter. No, I am not happy about this, but I think it is true

Reply to
Mikal Fisher

Same here. I did a lot of contract programming and always took great delight in pointing out. after they told me they really liked my work, that I was a high school dropout.

I'd like to think I opened a few minds, but I doubt it.

Reply to
Larry Blanchard

Now I never said that -- you're trying to put words in my mouth. Are you from the Rathburne school of trolling?

Reply to
Mark Mathu

Most of what I needed to do my job as a computer programmer I learned on the job. Little things like making political decisions, brown-nosing the right people, when to volunteer (or when to run the other way), when to say yes, when to say no...

That's what more graduates need to learn in order to survive. Not so much book education, but job environment education.

I've turned 40 this year and I'm finally learning the mistakes I've made over the years because nobody told me I was making them. I'm finally figuring it all out. Would've been nice to have learned this stuff 15 years ago.

Jay Modeling the North Shore & North Western C&NW/CNS&M in 1940-1955 Due to spam, all e-mails except those from selected addresses will be refused. Thanks for your understanding.

Reply to
JCunington

No, I dropped out of that one too.

Your one-liner responses which didn't acknowledge a single thing I said caused me to make that statement.

Andy

Reply to
Andy Harman

Its true the round file works both ways, and what degree you have makes a lot of difference. I had my own business for 16 years. During that time a Dairy Queen opened nearby. On opening day 7 of the 12 staff, working for minimum wage, had BA degrees.

Some years prior to this I worked in an electronics factory, doing quality control. Since I had to fix the assembly line screw ups, I was given the task of choosing the workers for the line. From hard experience we learned never to hire anyone with a degree, as they would always (generality-yes but mostly true) leave soon for a "better " job, and were disruptive to other workers. The quality of work was rarely as good as others, as it seemed they really didn't want to be there at all.

John H.

Reply to
NERD

Driving a truck is not a bad living my friend. I was talking to a friend of mine who drives the big rigs across country. He makes $26 per hour. Not all that bad, of course my CFO makes $100 per hour so there is a difference.

Reply to
EppersonJohnR

"EppersonJohnR"

Better money than I make and I'm the Manager-Technical Director of a community theatre and have a BFA in theatre. But then again, it's always been said the a BFA is worth "Bloody F*** All". :-)

Oh, and of course, to make matter worse, I'm paid in Canadian Pesos, which are only worth around US$0.70 these days

-- Cheers Roger T.

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of the Great Eastern Railway

Reply to
Roger T.

Where is your theater, Roger? (We know in Canada of course, but that's a very large place. :>))

I was interested in acting in my youth -- went so far as to even get a paying job in Plattsburg NY -- now that's REALLY off Broadway -- but in the end I opted for advertising. I admire your decision to stick with it.

Den

P.S. When I retired from the ad / marketing business I took up teaching -- A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE -- HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ! Opps, sorry -- I got a little carried away :>))

Reply to
Dennis E. Golden

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