After inspecting and testing the KW it is clear it needs a new circuit breaker... does not work at all. It also needs new rollers and new connectors on the back. Should anyone know a good source of parts and possible help... would be much appreciated. I am simply amazed at the kindness everyone has shown in this group... on my very first post.
Does anyone have experience running an older engine like my 665 with tender and 5 cars using the Lionel CW-80 transformer? The CW-80 is supposed to deliver 0-18 volts / 90 watts. It should have more power than the MRC 600 -AC transformer rated at 60 watts. One of these I hope might work while I take some time to get the KW rebuilt. If anyone has any experience with these 2 transformers or another that would be a good interim fix would be pleased to hear your suggestions.
Thanks again for all the kind replies... Merry Christmas to all.
Lionel apparently still sells the ZW (270 watts total) or at least it listed on their site. If you have a spare $400+! I thought MTH sold some type of high power transformer but it's close to impossible to find anything using their site!
I used a Lionel 75w transformer for similar Lionel locomotives with long freight consists successfully. I don't know if the old x-formers ratings were compiled in the same way as the new ones but I would think the CW80 would be up to the task and the price is certainly attractive.
Merry Christmas to you, too, John!
Bill Bill's Railroad Empire N Scale Model Railroad:
I run dual-motored F-3s with the CW-80 no problems. They are really 80 watts output - a solid 5 amps. The KW, rated at 190 watts, was the rating at the AC mains plug - consumption - it actually only puts out about 135 watts cold, & down when warmed up.
The CW-80 from set break-ups can be had for ~$45.00 delivered on eBay. Not bad for a $124.99 list price unit.
Just a heads-up, Lionel put red & black terminals on these for the track & accessories. Because this is a ONE train ONE dial transformer, the red "A" & "B" posts are common(lockon clip 2 or ground)... not the black "U" posts like on the multi-train KW, ZW, Z, V, etc.
"U" under "A" is the power for the trains(lockon clip 1), "U" under "B" is the power for accessories. If you remember this, & ignore the color of the binding posts, all will be well. On modern equipment, this will switch the bell & whistle functions, but on your postwar equipment, there will be no effect.
The owners manuals for this transformer & sets that came with it mention this only in passing in the section about "phasing", but with very little detail.
This only true with early CW-80's due to a manufacturing error, and was quickly identified because of problems created trying to hook up accessories with a 'common ground' reference to the track. This has long since been corrected, and the red "A" posts are electrically isolated and black "U" posts common like they should be on current production CW-80's.
The simplest way to check if you have an early CW-80 or not is with a continuity checker or ohm meter. If you get a dead short between the red posts, and high resistance or open between the black posts, it's an early model with the manufacturing defect. If the dead short is between the black posts, it's a later corrected model.
under "B"
the color
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equipment,
Again, this only applies to early production units with the manufacturing defect. Not current production units, which should be connected per the instruction manual.
it mention
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The current CW-80 owners manual says nothing about "phasing", which only comes into play if the CW-80 is used in conjunction with an older transformer that does not have a polarized plug. And Lionel apparently felt that was outside the scope of what the CW-80 manual needed to cover.
This was not an error, it is the design, and all CW-80's are wired as such. I've had 22 of them, still have four, of all different production dates up into 2006.
I'll believe it when I see it. I could be from Missouri.
The manuals themselves are contradictory(pg. 5), showing a diagram of one hook-up, but describing another. Both are actually right, depending on what you wanted to do or accomplish.
A quick call to Lionel, though, and they will explain that common ground accessory hookups are not recommended with the CW-80 due to the confusion with this model, regardless of production date.
Check pg. 19 of the Polar Express Manual or pg. 23 of the Santa Fe Fast Freight as examples:
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Advanced connections: powering two isolated blocks with two transformers:
As you expand your layout, you may decide to create two isolated blocks of track. Trains in each block are controlled by separate transformers. Before you operate your trains on this type of layout, be sure that your transformers are in phase. Operating your trains on a layout with two transformers that are out of phase may cause damage to the locomotive?s sensitive electronic components.
To be certain that your transformers are in phase, use a small 18-volt lamp with leads (available at your local electronics supply store) to perform a quick test. Refer to Figure 15.
Attach one lamp wire to the center rail in one block.
Attach the second lamp wire to the center rail in the other block.
Power up both blocks of track. Both transformers should be set to full power.
See if the lamp illuminates.
If the lamp illuminates brightly, your transformers are not in phase. Do not operate your trains on the layout until you change the wiring. If the lamp does not illuminate or the lamp is dim, your transformers are in phase and should not cause problems.
To bring your transformers into phase, simply swap the track wires at the A and U terminals on one of the transformers. If you are using an older transformer that lacks a polarized plug, you may reverse the plug at the outlet so that the prongs are inserted into the opposite openings. Repeat the procedure described above, and you should find that the lamp does not illuminate or the lamp is dim. This will also reverse the operation of the BELL and WHISTLE buttons on the transformer with the switched wires.
There has been no documented change or corrected circuitry to the CW-80, if you have a reference, please quote it or post it. In addition, Lionel has not offered any service documentation on the unit, it is disposable(although I do repair them - I am An Unauthorized Lionel Service facility, though).
Thanks for all the wiring tips... a bit disappointed to hear that the whistle won't work with my postwar engine. If I had known that I wouldn't have bought the cw80. Good news is that I can have the train running at least. Thanks again for the tips wiring it up.
The CW-0 is and has been an abomination. Most must be returned to Lionel as inoperative and faulty. Avoid it! If you really want to exchange info on
3-rail tinplate, R.M.R. is not the best place..perhaps the worst place.
Suggest you contact and join: snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com and TCA_members snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com
This is where you will get the best info! Not here on R.M.R. which is HO and scale dominated - a good thing but rather deficient in tinplate participants. Ray Hobin NMRA Life # 17XX; TCA # HR-78-XXXXX; ARHS # 2XXX Durham, NC [Where tobacco was king; now The City of Medicine]
Well that is nice news that the whistle will work. I think I misread a post on that. I got the CW-80 new off ebay for $56 shipped... looking forward to trying it out.
Again, thanks everyone... and I do mean everyone... for all the tips and suggestions.
Got the CW-80 and set it up and the 665 with tender and 5 cars runs fine. However, I believe I have something of an explanation regarding how to connect the CW-80 to O track. The manual shown here:
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INCORRECTLY shows the connection of the lokon #1 to terminal U (black) and #2 common (outside rail) to terminal A (red). I spoke with Lionel Tech service and they agreed the common (outer rail #2) should connect to black terminal U and hot (center rail #1) connects to red terminal A. The graphic on page 5 of the manual is incorrect. I also asked about the red wire on Fastrack terminal sections and was told this is connected to the hot (center rail) so the graphic on page 6 showing the red fastrack red wire connected to the red terminal A is correct.
Now, I had checked continuity between terminal A and B with my VOM and strangely enough they are "common" to each other. The lionel technicians ( I spoke to 2 of them) could not give me an explanation for this... but assured me that they are not the ground terminals rather they are the hot terminals. Setting things up correctly as described in the previously paragraph should also give the correct function of the whistle. I had things switched and the whistle button caused the whistle to attempt to blow (struggled) but the whistle worked fine with the bell button. I am told that when I correct the wiring... which I will do tonight, that the whistle will then function properly. They also alerted me that when set up correctly (A to center rail - U to outer rail) that I would not be able to use the transformer accessory terminals for "track electrically actuated" accessories. The accessory terminals should be used for general lighting (non track based) and that any track based accessories should be wired into the track terminals (A and U - same as track)
The CW-80 uses a rollback of the voltage rather than a conventional circuit breaker, as I understand. So... possibly that is why terminals A and B look common... or maybe someone in the group can explain why they show with a VOM as "common" but are in fact not and according to the Lionel Techs and are not connected to each other???? I'm not going to open up my new CW-80 to try and figure it out but would appreciate an explanation should anyone have one. A mystery to me.
Just checked the operation with the correct wiring (A= center rail) (U= outer rail)... made no difference to operation of the whistle. Whistle is still sluggish and respond poorly to the whistle button but works fine with the bell button. Go figure.
INCORRECTLY shows the connection of the lokon #1 to terminal U (black)
I have opened up 1 of my 22 CW-80's to effect a repair(stuck whistle button). There is a design flaw, & Lionel knows it, & they knew it before it was built. The Red "A" & "B" are, in fact, common.
See this for more info... it has some very important points throughout that every CW-80 owner should be aware of:
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For operating your postwar set, you are much better off using "U" under "A" to terminal "1", & "A" to terminal "2" for the trains, "B" (or "A" - they are THE SAME - I have the schematic) for accessory ground, & "U" under "B" for accessory power. The CW will work flawlessly for you in this configuration.
Another note on your whistle issue - you will find that if you hold the whistle button down it will blow as well as it does with the bell button(which has a built in "sustain" - 3-4 seconds). Postwar Lionels care not about the DC bias imprinted on the waveform - there is no "polarity" with the AC current that affects train operation.
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