Green's Patent Fuel Economiser

Pat:

I'll have a look through the steam reference books that we have here, but do you have any idea of the rough period this would have been used/designed in ?

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

Just put the name into google. Several references and a few books on the subject. A successor of Greens seems to exist & publishes a history.

I don`t have any reference material as I cleared all the old steam stuff ten years back when we moved.The Green`s economiser as I remember it used the flue gases to pre-heat the boiler feed water.The one`s I worked on were built into the flues of the Lancashire boilers at the rear and were the height and width of the boiler itself,typically 8ft x 8ft x 8/10ft long..There were chain driven scrapers on the tubes for scraping the build up of soot etc off to keep the rate of heat transfer up.I have only ever seen them on the big Lancashires in the woollen mills in the Scottish Borders where the company I served my time with did all the maintenance work.When I left in the late sixties there were about half a dozen off these left,the boilers having mostly been replaced with new package boilers.All these mills are away now and the boilers and economisers long since scrapped. Mark.

Pat:

It is mentioned in the 29th Ed of Molesworth's Pocket Book of Engineering Formulae, but not much other data. That is 1925.

The Patented part was probably the mechanically driven scraper that kept the tubes clear of soot and ash? Most others appear to have been cleaned manually at that time.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

have a look at

In "Modern Mechanical Engineering" 1923, Edward Green is credited with the invention of the economiser, which placed a feed water heater after the boiler tubes but before the flue.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

I should have added UK patent 10,986 issued 10/12/1845

Feed water is pre-heated by exhaust gasses form the boiler. I believe one was fitted in the chimney of one of Brunels ships. It blew up when someone left a valve closed.

Bob

Don't know about documentary info, but I'm pretty sure there is one still in situ at the Brighton and Hove Engineerium. I remember being quite impressed by the power driven soot scraper as a kid (the Highfield family sponsered a brick in the early days of the museum!)

nickh=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8

Here is a little pdf showing how a Lancashire boiler is installed which makes it sort of difficult to put the economiser before the flue.

mark.

I have a working description and illustration from 1906 if it's any help? Also another with formula.

Tom

I've got a couple of pages on Economisers in Hutchinson's Technical & scientific Encyclopaedia, from I'd guess just after WWII or maybe just before. Green isn't mentioned by name. What is it you need to know? I could scan & email to you if relevant.

Cheers Tim

Oops! forgot link.

All, Many thanks to all who responded to my request for help.

Briefly, I am secretary of the York Society of Model Engineers and I have been approached by a chap from the National Trust who own/manage the Treasurers House in York - a house built by Frank Green, the inventor of the GPFE.

The Trust are asking for help in restoring a model of the GPFE and I am considering taking on the job just for interests sake. I am trying to find out as much as I can about the device in order to help make my decision. I had searched the net but apart from a few references to books for sale I could find no technical details or photographs, hence the reason for the post to the group.

I appreciate the information provided so far it has been extremely helpful

If those that have offered scans and pictures could mail them direct it would be appreciated..

Thank you all..

Regards,

Appears a very simple device - vertical pipes and a scraper. Made for about a hundred years

I expect the model will have a rare old nest of tubes, some economisers had hundreds - have you not seen it ? I have a diagram of one for Lancashire boiler use with 128 vertical tubes of 9 feet length, 4 9/16 inches OD, and the only moving part would be the soot scraper mechanism, with scrapers operating in pairs linked by chains over pulley wheels to scrape all the pipes. The scrapers are full width of the flue, so might scrape 8 tubes for example, hauled by a single chain. A worm drive moves the pulleys so the scrapers travel at about 2.5 feet per minute, and the drive mechanism has an auto reverse. Unfortunately I haven't located a diagram of the reversing drive mechanism.

Messrs E Green & Son Ltd., Economiser Works, Wakefield made these for many years and there were various develpments, including gilled tubes, and ways of getting around thermal expansion problems and water deposits.

I'll send you a photo of the diagram I have, but I also found this link

- find an old mill that still has a Lancashire boiler- like Bancroft Mill.

Steve

I seem to remember the top of these things had dozens of plugs in them for inspection/cleaning purposes as well but I can`t remember the exact reason.I think they were on the water side as it was sometimes neccessary to repair leaks on them. It was always a very unpleasant job working on these as a Lancashire boiler and it flues took a long time to cool down and as they were only ever unfired for a maximum of two weeks there was not time to let them cool to a comfortable level before working on them. The worst job was replacing the fusible plugs,difficult because you were using 36" or 48" stillsons in the curve at the inside top of the drum made slightly easier if the last man to do them had used plenty graphite when he fitted them. Still,they were happy days. Mark.