3 Cylinders, 6 pistons, and 1 supercharger

My new project is to rebuild a Lister TS3 (Commer) 2 stroke diesel.
Here's some pictures:-
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/veg_oil_engines/lst?.dir=/TS3&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com /
I put the beer can in there so you can get an idea of size. Everything about this engine is big.
More information (and this is the grand total of my knowledege) about the engine is here:-
http://www.sa.hillman.org.au/TS3.htm
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Technical/TS3.htm
This is a big project, and I am going to need a lot of help. I am particularly short of time and experience ;-)
It would be great if I could get hold of a manual (I've tried internalfire, no luck there).
I also need to rebuild the starter motor, but would prefer to leave that to someone with some skill and knowledge. Can anyone recommend anyone?
Any advice/help/support/encouragement would be gratefully received.
    Mark
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Sadly, this isn't working for me - I get a Yahoo!-generated error page.
Also sadly, I can't help out with a manual. I suspect that Peter Forbes and also Paul Evans may be good bets for pointers to documentation and spares sources.
If this is the engine that was recently on eBay, then there didn't sound to be a great deal wrong with it apart from the starter... As far as having that repaired, you should be able to find a firm that reconditions such items on any large-ish trading estate. I know of at least one in Telford. Even a good auto-electrician might be able to do it.
Whereabouts in the country are you?
Best of luck!
Pete
--
Peter Scales

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Mark Walker wrote:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/veg_oil_engines/lst?.dir=/TS3&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com /
I have a workshop manual for the stationary version of this which I may be prepared to loan out. Pretty reliable engines if well maintained. The engine MUST be run with good air filtration, or else grit and dirt can badly score the lobes on the blower (minimal clearance here) Also, if left to idle for long periods at too low a speed, the quill shaft can break. The starter motor is a proprietary unit, should be easy to find a replacement or get the original one fixed. Normally these engines are instant starters, so the motor shouldn't have to be worked too hard :-)
Regards
Philip T-E
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The starter is one of those wierd 'specials' that shares its ancestry with another engine, one of the Lister air-cooled types.
I cannot immediately remember what is 'funny' about it, but I have had all sorts of problems finding any replacement motors or spares, and it's always the starter that goes missing when they are in the breakers yards.
I've just checked with Vince, he is pretty sure that it is an anti-clock rotation starter, and the Lister application is the same requirement.
Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk http://www.prepair.co.uk
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The guy who sold me the engine said the starter ran in the opposite direction to other starters.
Prepair Ltd wrote:

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Congratulations on a lively discussion group. Just spent a happy lunch hour browsing through the posts and thence to Ken Boak's blog.
Re. single cylinder two-stroke full diesels, how about the stationary versions of the Field Marshall tractor engine, or for something a bit more modern the Drayton/Stihl range?
--
Nick H



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Nick H wrote:

Or the Petter Atomic, or the little Stuart-Turner H type....I wonder if the Wizard counts as a diesel for the purposes of this discussion.....
Regards
Philip T-E
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I don't think anyone would consider the Wizard for a veg oil burning off-grid project ;-) and the S-T is a bit small and rare, but, first cost apart, an Atomic could be an interesting alternative to the apparently ubiquitous Lister CS or clone thereof.
--
Nick H



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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:35:42 GMT, Mark Walker

I've got a manual for an early model, I'll look it out later to see which one.
Cheers Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:35:42 GMT, Mark Walker

My manual is for CD and HD models, 85 and 105 bhp.@ 2400 rpm.
I'd guess it's about 150pp, I'm not keen to let it out of my possession but willing to copy at cost, whatever that may be.

No mention of the starter in my book, but I think it's a reverse rotation BS5. More or less equivalent to hens' teeth now, if you're really stuck you could almost certainly adapt a reverse rotation CA45 or current equivalent. They are also getting very scarce but I did get a new one last year from:
G E Middleton & Co City Road Manchester
They're in the phone book, if anyone can help you with rebuilding your existing starter, they can. They've done anticlock BS5's for me in the past, as well as more exotic stuff.
I think someone is importing something similar to the CA45, presumably far eastern, email me if you're stuck & I'll try to point you to them
HTH
Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 10:35:42 GMT, Mark Walker

I had quite a lot to do with the later series TS3's in an earlier life. One of my regrets is that the official work manual that I put on one side when we closed the garage was somehow lost. Plus points with these engines were fantastic starting and good fuel economy. We had some fitted in 4 wheelers at about 14 tons and these got a genuine 19 to the gallon. The later ones were able to push 150 bhp out and were fitted with CVA rotary pumps. I only saw in line pumps on the early models. We also had one fitted to a 26 tonner with double drive rear axles on off road work. Talk about quart out of a pint pot. It was strokes like these that got the engine bad name.
Someone mentioned letting them run at too low revs and shearing the quill to the blower. Not sure about this as most we had go were under acceleration. They will run with a sheared blower shaft but only on tick over. Incidentally the broken shaft when cut in two on a grinder will make the best two punches you will ever own :-)
One of the main problems we had was the rear inner timing cover coming loose with vibration and shearing the bolts. If it was caught in time it was repairable with new bolts but more often then not it only became apparent when the inner timing cover cracked and started pissing oil out. It must have been very common as a new cover was ridiculously cheap to buy, probably subsidised so people wouldn't moan quite as much.
Another problem was starting, although these were very good starters we had to stress on the drivers that they held the starter in until running well. The reason for this was the engine fired that readily that they used to flick the starter and it could ht compression and bounce back starting in reverse. Unfortunately once running in reverse the governors didn't work on the pump and the engines used to run away. They got that many revs up they either self destructed or they vacuumed the oil past the pistons and ran on that until they seized.
Changed quite a few that had done this and they weren't an easy job, the engine came out thru the passengers door and it was that tight you even had to take the grab handle off the door frame.
We had two start up backwards in the shop after service on different occasions. Quick thinking by our gaffer stuffing old overalls up the exhaust pipe managed to stop one and a fire extinguisher up the other saved that one.
You don't want to know about the ones that blew up :-(
Looking at some of the industrial pictures, can't see the posted pic's as Yahoo won't let me, I think there is a misunderstanding over the starter. All ours had reverse rotation CA45's, Early ones had the big boxy type. These were reverse rotation on the trucks as the starter stuck out the back. The engine rotated normal way i.e. clockwise from the front so any starter mounted alongside the engine as in the industrial pic's would be normal rotation. -- Regards,
John Stevenson Nottingham, England.
Visit the new Model Engineering adverts page at:- http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk /
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 23:19:01 GMT, John Stevenson

I've just found an illustration of the starter in my manual, it's of a BS5, as you say sticking out the back. That on the illustration of the Rootes-Lister is also a BS5 but slung underneath.
Cheers Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
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wrote:

Hello, I've been just reading this group for years and at last, something I know about!I'm the chap that developed the web page with the animated TS3 engine you have a link to. It was originally on my own web site, but when I revised this the drawing was put out "on loan" to the Australian Rootes club.
If this is the engine that recently went through on Ebay then I would be interested to know what engine number it is. It has an in line pump so must be a fairly old one. Factory rebuilt engines had an aluminium data plate on the top of the exhaust manifold. The early engines were available with a .020" oversize rebore bore option so it is just worth checking the bore size. Early engine spares are getting difficult, but the so called "Maxiload" engines are easier - trouble is the liners do not fit the early ones. It is worth looking out for the parts manual too.
The starter motor is a standard type CAV design and the switching solenoid which is the bit that normally gives trouble can also be found on starters suitable for Bedford, AEC , Leyland engines etc.
Although the prototype engines could indeed run backwards, this was cured on production models by use of a dephasing coupling on the injection pump drive (by hand you should be able to part turn the wheel that looks like a small flywheel on the end of the injection pump). Presumably those with experience of these engines running backwards have encountered some kind of non standard installation. It is true that they can run away. The injection pump has a pneumatic governor and the link pipe to the air intake venturi must be in position. Indeed there's a little plate on the pipe with a warning to this effect. Sometimes these pipes could crack due to vibration.
I notice that the rubber coupling is missing between the air filters and venturi. This was a particularly sturdy bit of rubber - don't be tempted to run without it. The blower drive shaft tends to break when the engine is "blipped" repeatedly from tick over - it is not running at low revs that actually cause the problem, just the inertia in the blower and the fact that the engine will zip up and down the rev range so readily.
Please feel free to contact me off group.
Regards, Nick Webster
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Guys,
Would you mind checking the following eBay listing please? http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemu60081533&sspagename ME:B:AAQ::1
The seller is sure it is a Lister TS3. I can't believe it is the same as my Commer 2-stroke, is it?
He says its air-cooled.
Is there another Lister engine (4-stroke) with the model number TS3?
    Mark
Mark Walker wrote:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/veg_oil_engines/lst?.dir=/TS3&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

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yes ttfn Roland

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On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:03:06 -0000, "Roland Craven"

See
http://www.maesco.com/products/lp/lp_t/lp_t.html
for example
Cheers Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
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