Kemble

Been down to the darkest depths of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire today, and had a few hours at the kemble Steam Rally.

The weather was just like Burford last year, hot with a slight breeze, but very strong sun, so anti-sun measures were in force for the day.

We had a good drive down, took a couple of hours or so, probably nearer 2-1/2 as there is no direct cross-country route for us, we have to go one of two ways to the show, and neither are particularly fast.

Traders were a bit thin on the ground but the few that were there made up for it in quality. We found a very good stall with books and manuals, and selected 3 Petter industrial diesel manuals and a Lister Marine Sales JP6MG manual, all genuine and in fair nick. Strange that we paid £8 for the three Petter manuals yet he wanted £7 for an early Villiers instruction book...

Buyable hardware was a bit lacking as well, the only stall that had anything of interest was an ex-wd guy who had lots of truck stuff etc. There was a Petter AVA1 and a pump on the back of a Transit, but the cowling was rusted through. He also had a couple of Villiers engines on the floor but they were a bit ratty.

Engines were fair to good, there was a Marshall horizontal portable running without load and putting up clouds of unburnt paraffin or diesel every few seconds, pity they couldn't have got a load to hook it up to and get it warmed up. Quite a few Stuarts on view, including a couple of singles for sale, one with radiator.

PTFE's Apple-Top and pump were there, sounding very much as though the engine was running much faster than the Atomic at Burford, but probably just my imagination... Didn't see Philip, although Len Gillings suggested that a corpse lounging under a large brolly may have been the aforesaid, we didn't stop to wake him up! Had a chat with Len about his new camshaft, hope to see that in the engine sometime, but not hear it!

A Ruston & Hornsby 1ZHR was running awfully slowly at one end of the row where Philip and Len were sited, and the display board said it was a 1Z / XHR, which is a nonsense as the nameplate quite clearly states 1ZHR. They are almost identical engines but the 1Z has a higher output through injection mods. It had come from Hatfield College, and had the brake fitted still. We hung around a few engines hoping to get the owners out to talk, but few were either physically there or interested in talking, so we moved on.

We took the shuttle bus over to the Bristol museum at the far side of the airfield, all the while a selection of small aircraft were taking off and landing, including a jet Provost which was mightily noisy. The Bristol museum was very interesting in a anorak sort of way. It isn't large enough to do more with its exhibits, but has a lot of interesting stuff there to be viewed. Worth the time taken, hope to see it much expanded in future.

We left after 4pm to go to Stratton St Margaret to collect Rita's Norman engine. It's in original lightish blue paint, has a foot missing off the base but otherwise looks great. Vince can repair the foot for me next week, and I'll get the other items sorted at the same time. It has two vertical-pointing silencers that push over the (also vertically pointing) exhaust stubs. Mag looks like an ML, carb is underslung and a Zenith I think. The oil gauge is present but missing its glass. It has compression!

We got back home just after 7pm, we left SSM at 5pm and we fed nags and did shopping before getting in.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

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Reply to
Peter A Forbes
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Couple of things I forgot!

There was a nice 15hp Petter S running, wasn't driving anything but was nicely displayed.

The Bristol Museum charges an entrance fee, we paid £2 each to get in, it is normally £4 per adult.

Peter

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Reply to
Peter A Forbes

Norman should be BTH MC2 and a Solex 26 FH ttfn Roland

Reply to
Roland and Celia Craven

I've never seen a Norman with vertical silencers, they always seem to come with the two exhausts curled from the top stubs on the cylinders down the front of the engine and then paired together towards the right hand side where they can be connected to a silencer or a flexible tube with a silencer on the end. Are the vertical silencers an original feature for some models?

I've just spent a good many hours over the past few weeks restoring mine to something approaching class 1 including a complete rebuild of the Solex carburettor. The only real problem I found (other than the shattered throttle body that had to be re-fabricated from scratch) was re-sealing the vertically split crankcase that leaked oil like the proverbial sieve (why did we insist on vertically split crankcases on our good-ol' British bikes and small engines?)

The other thing to watch out for on these engines is the exhaust stubs cast into the cylinders. The exhausts in the usual configuration make excellent handles to lift the engine, usually resulting in snapping off the cylinder stubs. Replacing mine was a nightmare welding job involving gently raising the whole cylinder to near welding temperature in an oven and then very slowly cooling after the welding to avoid stress cracking other parts of the cylinder.

It's just as well we give our time for free otherwise I probably own the most expensive Norman in history!

Regards

Mark

Reply to
Mark Howard

Horizontal 'pepper-pot' silencers were an option but ex-lawnmower verticals are an easy and cheap retrofit, especially now that Mr Sparks has disappeared :-( ttfn Roland

Reply to
Roland and Celia Craven

(why did we insist on vertically split

Most probably easier to produce a mould and machine the casting, to produce a horizontal casting usually involved splitting the crankshaft bearing housings which called for more accurate casting and machining ?

Martin P

Reply to
Campingstoveman

Any pics? I'd like to see Marshall and of course Stuarts.

Reply to
Nick H

Our Martin P has it one! Engines that split horizontally along the mainshaft require more complicated machinery to produce accurately.

The first Yamahas (YDS1&2) were vertically split because they'd bought a ship load of second hand Swedish machinery and had to get up to speed by earning enough capital to buy new. Most Japanese manufacturers were bombed out during the Second World War and US grant aid paid for replacement machinery, so they had no base of 100 year old centre lathes to support their emergent industrial base.

It was the lack of such modern machinery that was at the heart of the failure of the British motorcycle industry to compete with the Japanese. When the Triumph factory closed, they had *two* CCM jig borers ......................

Can we see some pics of Rita's engine Peter?

Regards,

Kim Siddorn,

Reply to
J K Siddorn

Took camera along but nothing really shouted at me to take a picture, other than the supine form of PTFE....

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Engine pages for preservation info:

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Reply to
Peter A Forbes

Yes, for sure, I'll pop a couple off one evening and put them on the web pages. I owe sopme pics to Arthur as well, so I'll try and do them all together, not as if we are short of cameras!

Roly has supplied a lot of useful info/lore, and the engine seems remarkably 'all there' which after a few decades of viewing wrecks comes as a surprise!

We have our eyes on a military 3-phase 400hz genny which looks about the right size, although it may need more revs than the T300 will be happy at.

Peter

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Reply to
Peter A Forbes

Seems like a logical explanation - thanks.

It strikes me that there was probably a bit of the 'why change it, we've always done it that way' syndrome here because I would have thought that the problem was far from insurmountable if it was even recognised as a problem. Having spent my formative years defending my British bikes from the verbal abuse issued by my Japanese bike owning friends and mother because of the constant oil-slick on the driveway, it still grates a bit :))

Mark

Reply to
Mark Howard

Actually, if anyone is interested, I have a charging set control panel that was originally supplied with the Norman T300. I don't have a suitable dynamo (about 35 to 50V IIRC). It has numerous rheostats, volt meters and ammeters. It's in it's original olive drab paintwork with military stencils and all of the operating instructions on labels inside the doors (I also have a copy of the charging set manual). I haven't tested it but it seems to be in good condition internally.

It needs to be paired up with the appropriate dynamo, so does anyone have a dynamo they'd like to get rid of or does anyone want the control panel to go with their dynamo?

Mark

Reply to
Mark Howard

The Appletop runs at its rated 600 rpm, whereas the 8hp Atomic normally seems to be steadiest at around 500-550 rpm. Any more than that and it starts to jump around... very scary.

I admit it, I was that corpse.....

Len is planning to do it over the winter months. Its not the cams that are the problem, but the eccentric that drives the fuel pump. The stroke is too long, leading to surging in the inspirator( very nasty ,,,,)., and black smoke out of the exhaust. The rich mixture causes carbon build-up in the exhaust, which then gums up the valves in the water circulating pump, which is driven by the exhaust pressure pulses. That vertical Blackstone is one weird engine :-)

As an exhibitor, Kemble was a hugely enjoyable weekend, especially the bit where some of the exhibitors were having a thrash up the runway in the evening. A Foden FD6 at full throttle acceleration sounds wonderful, as did a Commer TS3. And you wouldn't credit just *how* fast some of those Sentinel wagons can go!

Regards

Philip T-E

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ClaraNET

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