Threat to imperial measurements

I came across this on another board and thought it may be of some intrest.
Since 1995 we have been compelled to measure and price merchandise in metric
units but allowed to show the imperial equivalent alongside.
At the end of 2009 it will become illegal to make any mention of imperial
units.
The ban will apply to all products, packaging, advertisements, magazines,
catalogues.
The effects of this ban will be wide ranging.
Spare and replacement parts for existing equipment built to imperial
standards will cease to be available
It will not be possible to package, advertise or catalogue such items.
Thousands of citizens with interests in vintage vehicles, preserved
railways, and model engineering, will be deprived of legal access to tools
and materials to pursue their interests.
If like me, you believe that you should be permitted to continue to have
access to all the equipment you need to enjoy your hobby, then visit the web
site below and sign the petition,
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Mike M
miley snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com
Reply to
miley_bob
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I do hope this is scaremongering, if it is a correct reading of the implications we are all in trouble. I can't see it though, surely no amount of legislation can make (say) a 25.4mm AF spanner illegal and manufacturers will continue to supply them for as long as the demand is there.
Reply to
Nick H
It probably is, most of the petitions on that site are badly researched and are fired off willy nilly.
Mind you knowing the current lots ability to bring in poorly constructed legislation, push through ideas that haven't been thought through properly and so on, anything is possible.
More to the point if the road toll petition with 2 million plus signatures can just be publicly ignored by the minister responsible they are all an utter waste of time.
If you are really concerned *write to your MP*. I find mine pretty good when it comes to asking embarrassing questions of the government, mind he is a Tory...
It wouldn't be but it would be if you called it a 1" AF spanner, it is daft though. Just not thought through properly. Probably a knock on effect from the appalling standards of education in the last 10 years or so. Nobody nows how to think or has any real experience of doing real jobs in manufacturing. I'd say that most of the work force are pen pushers in one form or another, thats always assuming they can use a pen...
Reply to
Dave Liquorice
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 pam is missing e-mail
I think true or otherwise I'll sign the online petition anyway. Why not? It takes little effort and it's the taxpayers brass that pays for them. I might try badgering my MP about it by email and post. Might as well try to get some mileage from the lazy bastard after all. Certainly sounds stupid enough to be true. Straying OT but I did hear that they were going to try to scrap the assay process for gold too (which has only worked perfectly for what? 300 years?!?) and introduce a german style "voluntary" assay. Oh BTW, more than 90% of the "gold" jewellery sold in germany isn't what it claims to be, as opposed to less than 5% here... Cheers, Scruff.
Reply to
Scruff
I heard this was on the cards, part of not allowing people to find out how much a lb of potates cost, and so force us to adopt metric units. This will mean that all imperial items will have to be marked only in metric units. Its complete lunacy of course. Think of threads, if you want a tap that is 1/8" by 40tpi - then what on earth will it be described as - there wouldn't be enough space on it to stamp how many thread per metre, or is it millimetres per thread.
I was chatting to some friends tonight and the subject came up of people's weight. Everyone quoted stones - no one used pounds and no- one used kilograms. I was surprised, I thought I was an old fart - and the rest were all younger than me.
I really do not think people are going to be happy about this...hopefully the opposition are taking note.
Steve
Reply to
Steve
Just call it 1 AF with a note on the pack that AF size numbers are based on a unit of 0.0254 m. :-)
Reply to
Ian Malcolm
mmm.... cant see this being policed myself, someone better hurry up and invent a new standard pipe thread because thats all you can buy at the moment and what happens if you want a replacement 2" bsp elbow ? sounds like another waste of tax payers money.
rgds bob
Reply to
Bob
Hmm...
Pipe has been metrified for years: 15, 20, 25, 32, 40, 50, 65, 80 etc etc...
Tom
Reply to
Tom
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Alternatively, you could ask the legal people who wrote the Regulations if this really is the case. As I used to work with them, at , I am content to ask on behalf of all the Group, and post the answer here. Watch this space!
Reply to
MatSav
Until you enter a FTA with the US and the market gets flooded with products in measurements that were made illegal years ago!!
Reply to
Scenic
Couple of things -
a third party contact of mine works in a politico's office in Whitehall - no names, no pack drill - & says that petitions are encouraged because they leave a trail of e-mail addresses behind them, the political affiliation of which can be gauged by the response! Nonsense, of course. One might support a party whilst not agreeing with a policy, but typical of the way many people think when surrounded by lesser mortals who are keen to be seen to be supportive. Petitions also draw out a lunatic fringe, some of whom might need watching ..........
The one thing they are not used for is what the voters think about (say) road pricing, as public opinion can be easily manipulated before legislation is undertaken. Nobody's job is on the line if a petition is ignored & it is felt in Whitehall that they are an excellent sop to the masses - rather like bread and circuses!
Dave Liquorice is quite right. Writing to your MP is always worthwhile. These are real people whose continued position in power is dependent upon individuals getting off their individual arses from time to time, going to the polling station and actually voting. They are well aware of the fact that where one writes there are hundreds of others that think the same & cannot be bothered because it is generally accepted that it will make no difference. It really does. Even if they are form letters, their arrival means that someone actually thinks along these lines who in a few short months might be expected to be on your side - or not. I wrote to my MP - Dawn Primarolo - in respect of the Off Road Vehicle Registrations Bill and got a prompt and appropriate response.
Eschew the on line petition, find a stamp & drop your MP a line!
Early versions of legislation are often badly thought out & very highly educated, experienced and sensible people simply let the thing circulate. It draws comment, allowing a value judgement to be made of just what they can get away with. It also brings out aspects of the matter not previously considered that might well enable closer writing & tightening of the concept. Specialist interest groups are often consulted and their opinions taken into account at the committee stage. As an instance of this I'd mention the allowance made for re-enactment in several pieces of firearms legislation over the last eighteen years. This curious hobby contributes to the heritage industry & is seen as harmless eccentricity at its worst and a multi-million pound tourism support staffed entirely by volunteers at best! Another instance is the hands off approach to foot launched hang gliding & there being no registration requirement under CAA regs. These are two instances where I have been directly involved over the years, but I'm sure there are others.
For all its faults, our rather haphazard system of parliamentary democracy probably works better than any other system in the world today - quite worrying really .........
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
Reply to
Kim Siddorn
welcome to the socialist/european common mentality. we have the same type of "world thinking" idiots here, too. 50 years ago i started to list my engine size in gallons when asked about the displacement. such as point ninety-five gallon for a 220 cubic inch ford.. my lotus is 1.9 US QUARTS. I came across this on another board and thought it may be of some intrest.
Reply to
zammy
I realise that metric pipe is available as I am in the bussiness but they are not the same , you cant fit a piece of 20mm upvc into a 3/4 sockect , and there is no commonly used metric thread available , all your metric fittings if they have male thread on are still BSP all gas fittings BSP you do see some strange threads on pressure sensors tranducers etc, but they tend to be unique to the manufactures or parallel variants of BSP GAZ fittings , we are putting a new reception facitilty in for united utilities and most of the pipe we are instaling will be metric but all the threads will be BSP.
Rgds bob
Reply to
Bob
Actually, that is not what I meant. The size of the pipe hasn't changed only how the merchants describe the sizes. In most cases with a very soft conversion. BTW, when I say pipe I'm meaning galvanised, black or SS. The various plastic piping systems are a different kettle of fish.
Next WE I'll be installing 15mm, 20mm, 32mm and 50mm SS pipe in a factory with the associated fittings, which translates into 1/2", 3/4", 1-1/4", and 2" SS pipe under the old nomemclature.
Tom
Reply to
Tom
If its any consolation I do work for petrochemical plant throughout the world, and its entertaining that almost without exception the pipe is specified in inches nominal bore and the length of pipe runs in millimetres or metres. So normal speak is 200 metres of 8inch pipe.. and why not. I think its great !
Steve (Cheshire)
Reply to
Steve
We just use whatever fits.... :-))
Bought some plastic conduit the other day, then found we had some old 25mm or 1" steel stuff that we could run cables through already. There are many adapters available to convert from one to t'other, and the actual pipe size is not that relevant (in this particular case)
Peter -- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:
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Reply to
Peter A Forbes
As promised, here's the reply I received. It doesn't look like there's a threat at all:
Under the Units of Measurement Directive (80/181/EC) only metric units are authorised for use for economic and other purposes in all Member States. However, other units may be used alongside metric units as supplementary indications until 31 December 2009, so long as they are not larger or more prominent than the metric ones. This date has been extended twice from the date in the original Directive of 1989, first to 1999 and then to 2009. At the end of 2006 the European Commission issued a working paper for public consultation addressing the question of a further extension.
The UK Government responded to the European Commission's working paper in favour of a continuation of supplementary indications to allow for dual metric and non metric labelling beyond 2009 for an indefinite period. We believe that the removal of supplementary indications would increase costs for EU business exporting to the USA by requiring separate labelling for metric and non metric markets and could also act as an unnecessary barrier to trade between the EU and non metric countries. There is also strong support from UK business for the continuation of dual labelling and many UK businesses have made their views known to the Commission. We expect the Commission to propose a further extension in due course.
Products and equipment which were already on the market when Directive 80/181/EEC came into force (i.e. in 1980) and replacement parts for such equipment are exempt from the requirement to use metric units. No changes are proposed to this authorisation, so spare and replacement parts for equipment built to imperial standards before the Directive came into force will continue to be authorised after 2009.
Reply to
MatSav
Thank goodness for that. So we don't need to form secret societies where we all meet to drink pints and get our fix of inches and fractions to say nothing of rods, poles, fathoms, chains and perches. I could see the police stopping a car and finding a hoard of illicet tools worth =A325 on the street. Sod that 2kg (4.4lb) of heroin, he's got a 1/4 whit spanner. The threat these things pose to society cannot be underestimated. Books containing any reference to BSW, BSF, BA, etc would have to be destroyed to protect the inocent. Model engineers would be hug at dawn for muttering tpi. We would, of course be allowed to use ISOwhitworth threads. Sizes such as 9.525 x 1.5875 would become common. The question of number and letter drills would be interesting as they're not strictly speaking imperial measurements. That would be a dangerous loophole that would have to be discussed in Parliament. There would be pettitions raised in support of these citing the need to maintain our rich industrial herritage. Which brings us back to where we started with this twaddle, which is a unit in itself as I'm sure you all know!
John, (waffling and relieving a few moments of boredom)
Reply to
John
Oh dear, and I thought that it was me that went off at tangents!
I was sitting in my Lodge last evening watching two go through the Entered Apprentice's stage when the 24" gauge is explained as reference to 24 hours of the day upon which life is -or should be conducted. Nothing secret or mysterious or whatever.
Of course, it all- apart from a few signs and tokens- straight out of the Old Testament where the measurements are Imperial. Not attributable to Masonic Grand Masters like Kings, Princes and lesser mortals but King Solomon or if we can't get our heads round that- King James who gave us the Bible as we know it but a Counterblast against Smoking which will come into force on the 1st July- a period of over 400 years.
Well, yes?
Norm
Reply to
ravensworth2674
Just what are you, smoking?
Tom
Reply to
Tom

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