AD Stafford Exhibition This Weekend

We visited the show on Saturday for the first time and, to be honest, we were disappointed, not with the layouts, just the people !

Our son has autism (

and just loves trains of all types so we tend to take him to a number of railway exhibitions.

He knows he is NOT to touch any of the exhibits unless he is told he can ( and has been known to tell other children & adults "not to touch" ).

In our opinion most of the exhibitors just could not be bothered to talk to him and the look of frustration and disappointment clearly showed in his face.

At one point we followed a chap in a wheel chair down an 'alley way' to just look at the large fiddle year so he could see his favourite model ( a Virgin livery 125 ) and were told quite abruptly to "clear off". From experience and talking to other exhibitors at other shows we know models and equipment do tend to 'disappear' but even so a polite word would have been just as effective.

As always there are exemptions, the ladies selling the tickets were very polite and welcoming to our son. The only group of exhibitors who were prepared to chat and spend time with our son were those on the 'Rockmoss' layout, one of who said why they get our blessing " We love to see the looks on the children's faces when they see our layout working " THANK YOU gentlemen. We would also like to mention the lady running the 'Cromford' layout who was always prepared to remove models to show people how they were built or talk to the children ( even coming round the front so they did not have to shout ). Again THANK YOU.

I hear and read a lot or concerns about young people not taking up the hobby. the general attitude we experienced is not the way to encourage them !

Most adults I know look at the layout, then go to the fiddle yard to see the equipment they haven't yet seen.

Ever take him to the Great Central at Loughborough, theyre a wonderful bunch there. Even at the 5th time of asking the next departure time they still smile and pleasantly answer my 6 year old. Its a Thomas w/e in 2 weeks time so that will drive away the serious spotters - although even some of them can smile occasionally !

Cheers, Simon

"simon" wrote Ever take him to the Great Central at Loughborough, theyre a wonderful bunch there. Even at the 5th time of asking the next departure time they still smile and pleasantly answer my 6 year old. Its a Thomas w/e in 2 weeks time so that will drive away the serious spotters - although even some of them can smile occasionally !

Cheers, Simon

Simon, I keep hearing you say that you will visit the Churnet Valley Railway, I wouldn't normally promote said event here, but as you mention the GCR, it's our Thomas event this weekend 10th, 11th and midweek 13th & 14th Feb.

Sadly, I'm at work, so will not be there, but feel free to have a look at the new signal at Cheddleton and the 47 being worked on in the yard!

I will come as soon as you have something special to justify the extra travel. you should promote CVR, had I known the G2 was there then would have come for that - do you know where it is now ?

Whats a 47 ? Theyve got a jinty in bits at Loughborough !

Cheers, Simon

In message , Andy Sollis CVMRD writes

That's where they are disposing of all those bird-flu-infected turkeys, AIUI.

"simon" wrote I will come as soon as you have something special to justify the extra travel. you should promote CVR, had I known the G2 was there then would have come for that - do you know where it is now ?

Whats a 47 ? Theyve got a jinty in bits at Loughborough !

Cheers, Simon

Ah, You should pay more attention to the magazine stalls in WH Smiths... We have just had the ex-LNER K4 The Great Marquess for a month, sadly, she leaves today to head to Scotland. It must be the most profitable Januray on record for the CVR - Sadly, there was more trespass than ever as the selfish ones go where they like to get that "perfect" picture. Just because your in an orange vest don't make it legal ! We do not allow track access unless with a member of staff for safety ! And as for the guy who must have climbed the unsafe chimney in Boltons yard ? well... either that or he has a 30 ft ladder in his car !

Rant over...

We're looking at possibly 2 NRM locos for end of sping time.... Keep you posted..

Andy

My daughter is on the autistic spectrum and whilst not having a love of trains as such, has been taking quite an interest in my N gauge layout that I'm working on. I took her to the model railway exhibition at Warwick the other week and she thoroughly enjoyed it, particularly looking at the scenic layouts. Everyone there was really friendly; we had some cracking conversations with exhibitors and with the people on the trade stands; my daughter had a controller given to her and was told "there you are - that's your train"; the refreshments were cheap and good, etc. She throughly enjoyed herself (so did I) and asked if we could go to another one, which I frankly was amazed at .

Between us, we decided to go to Stafford. What a disappointment! With the exception of (as you say) the ladies selling the tickets and people giving demonstrations (and weren't they good?) the vast majority of people there, whether "exhibitors" or "punters" were downright rude and ignorant. My daughter likes to stand and look at a layout and study the scenery and construction etc., which is something I'm encouraging anyway because I'm not particularly arty, and she happily asks questions. Unfortunately, (a) we could rarely get her close enough to see (I'm 6' and 14 odd stone and I even I was being pushed out of the way so my poor daughter didn't stand a chance) and (b) when we did, the "exhibitors" weren't really interested in her questions anyway (with the exception of the chap showing the Talyllyn model, who would have talked for ever about it!). Throw in the fact that the entry fee was quite high, the refreshments were downright expensive, there was very little N gauge kit for sale and it was a total disappointment all round!

I couldn't agree more. As an adult coming relatively new into the hobby, I get treated in quite an offhand manner when I ask questions born out of ignorance, so what chance do the youngsters stand. I think it's wonderful that my daughter is taking an interest - I really want to encourage her, but it's blooming difficult when she sees the sort of example that we came across on Saturday. Stafford - "nil points"

Kevin the Lurker

Well, just to give an alternative point of view, my wife and I went to the Stafford show and enjoyed it a lot (well, I did, anyway!). OK, so we didn't have a small child in tow (we left our baby daughter with her nan for the day), but I saw plenty of children there who seemed to have no difficulty getting to the front, and when I spoke to the exhibitors they all seemed happy enough to chat. I didn't try the food, but the limitations of such an event mean that you're unlikely to get much choice there anyway. Considering the number of layouts on display, I thought the admission price was fair and the cost of the show programme (only a quid) was good value.

Maybe part of the difference was the time. We went on Saturday morning/lunchtime, and it was busy but not overcrowded - ideal show conditions, in fact. Maybe it was more overcrowded either later on Saturday or on Sunday, which would account for the complaints of not being able to get close enough to the exhibits and also contribute to the stress levels of the exhibitors - having worked behind the layout in the past I do know that tempers can start to fray towards the end of a long day when there are just too many people wanting to ask the same questions over and over again.

It's important to remember that the majority of model railway exhibitions are run and staffed by people who do it for no other reason than the fact that they love the hobby - they're not professional event organisers and the layouts don't belong to full-time exhibitors. If a show is overcrowded then that's rarely the fault of the organisers - sometimes, an event can become a victim of its own success - and, while it's nice to be able to chat to the exhibitors if they've got the time to spare, you have to accept that they have other priorities. I'm sure that almost every show can be improved in some areas, but as far as I'm concerned the Stafford organisers got it pretty much right.

Mark

I didn't have a small child in tow either - my daughter is 12. The "small" children were able to push their way through, however, my daughter being bigger was constantly being pushed out of the way by other punters desparate to get a look at things. Regarding food, choice wasn't a problem - it was quality and cost that was!

We were there on Saturday morning too!

Unfortunately, it's all to easy for the love of the hobby to turn in to elitism - ask any number of beginners who have gone to or even tried to join a local club! You would think that they would want to share their enthusiasm. You can also see this type of behaviour at many of the preserved railways, although I have met a few people who really do want to share their hobby.

Other than the comment about the catering, I'm not criticising the organisers. I mentioned in my original post how well I thought the ladies handling the tickets did their job; the marshalling was good, the car parking was good and the venue was about right. My big beef really is with the way both the exhibitors and the punters handled a child with obvious disabilities and a father who is a newbie to the hobby. The contrast between Stafford and Warwick was amazing! As I said originally, at Warwick both mine and my daughters questions were dealt with really well by both the exhibitors and traders (they really did share their love of the hobby plus I picked up a lot of tips) and the punters were civilised, actually moving out of the way so my daughter could have a good look at the layouts.

Kevin

Kevin

"Kevin Harper" wrote

Yup, Agreed, but I can assure you, I will happily down tools for a few mins to show someone around our yard to look at this piece of stock or that locomotive... A small contribution in the donations box doesn't go amiss, but I never ask ! At the end of the day, the visitor is the person paying so I can do (one of) my hobby(ies).

I tend to find that the SMALLER the exhibition, the more friendly and "one to one" the exhibitors are. As an exhibitor myself, I cannot answer why it is not possible at a larger venue, but at a small venue, you have time to relax and stop the shunt and talk as the only person watching is the person you may be holding the conversation with. There are only 2 of us on our layout (Dad and Me) - Dad (not disrespect) knows very little about DCC and the sound etc, so all questions get fired at me - and when your at a busy show, it does take two people to run the layout and keep something moving... Stop moving, crowd loose interest and no one bothers with the layout. What I find odd is that the ones where folk behind the layouts are rude or will not talk actually keep getting invites ! (Please note - I am also an exhibition manager and taking heed of the comments made - and yes, we only have a small exhibition - quality over quantity I hope!)

Hey Ho....

I think an important point is who the operators are. Some folk are not born operators and showmen, and have to apply 100% concentration on what they are doing, and get extremely uncommunicative. Other folk can operate, chew gum, drink tea and chat up viewers all at the same time without missing a beat on the operation. At exhibitions, a good few operators are press-ganged into the job to cover the operating schedule and are probably not first choice operators. When I had a layout on the exhibition circuit a good few years ago, I knew the operators who would keep the layout working well with little effort (and do the chat as well), and the other folk who would operate with clenched teeth and had no time to talk - at best, or who could reduce the layout to a disaster area in a few minutes, at worst :-)

Jim.

Having done the rounds of a lot of the preserved railways, people like you are in the minority and it really is such a treat when you do find someone like yourself! Two that stick in my mind are the Nene Valley, where I ended up getting a footplate ride on a Deltic for showing an interest in being in the right place at the right time and having a discussion about the merits of diesel hydraulics with the owner of a Western up at the East Lancs whilst sat on the platform beside his locomotive!

Warwick, whilst a smaller venue (the local senior school) had almost as many layouts as Stafford and was probably just as busy - work that one out if you can! Exhibitors and traders actually made the time to talk too, which was cracking for me as a newbie.

Still, c'est la vie!

Kevin

"Kevin Harper" wrote in news:s4Jxh.6284$ snipped-for-privacy@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

Well I've only been a member of one club Beckenham and West Wickham MRC

and I found that I was in amongst a bunch of chaps with a very wide range of experiance, outlooks, "station in life" and even personal hygene in respect of one chap! Folks of all ages - including a young lad with an ASD who wanted to do nothing more than help out. The thing that underlaid it all though was a universal willingness to sit and chat - just pass the time and day with a bit of civil conversation in a friendly and welcoming atmosphere - albeit the club is currently housed in what can best be described as a dungeon.

I think you'd be surprised at just who "non-elitist" the average club is

- obvioulsy being part fo the gang so to speak I spent a lot of time chatting to folks from other clubs at exhibitions and the like.

Sadly - I've had to let my membership lapse for the simple reason on those days when I do finish work early enough to go to the club I'm to shagged to go!

Simon wrote :-

" Ever take him to the Great Central at Loughborough, they're a wonderful bunch there. Even at the 5th time of asking the next departure time they still smile and pleasantly answer my 6 year old. Its a Thomas w/e in 2 weeks time so that will drive away the serious spotters - although even some of them can smile occasionally ! "

Funny you should say that ...... my wife used to work in the admin offices @ Great Central some years ago. They have swap meets occasionally and you can always get a bargain plus the staff are great.

We found the exhibitors at the Derby ( Mickleover ) exhibition are the best we have experienced to date. A large number of them either had autistic children / relatives or were teachers / careers, that may explain our good reception but they were polite & helpful to everyone.

Another place we found a mixed reception was @ The Midland Railway Centre, Butterley in Derbyshire. We went on a Thomas Christmas Special and also visited the model railway they have on site run by a local club. The preservation staff were not very helpful but the lads on the layout and in the back room were 1st class plus you can get about 20% off Hornby models from their 'shop'.

Kevin Harper wrote :-

" My daughter is on the autistic spectrum and whilst not having a love of trains as such, has been taking quite an interest in my N gauge layout that I'm working on. I took her to the model railway exhibition at Warwick the other week and she thoroughly enjoyed it, particularly looking at the scenic layouts. Everyone there was really friendly; we had some cracking conversations with exhibitors and with the people on the trade stands; my daughter had a controller given to her and was told "there you are - that's your train"; the refreshments were cheap and good, etc. She thoroughly enjoyed herself (so did I) and asked if we could go to another one, which I frankly was amazed at . Between us, we decided to go to Stafford. What a disappointment! With the exception of (as you say) the ladies selling the tickets and people giving demonstrations (and weren't they good?) the vast majority of people there, whether "exhibitors" or "punters" were downright rude and ignorant. My daughter likes to stand and look at a layout and study the scenery and construction etc., which is something I'm encouraging anyway because I'm not particularly arty, and she happily asks questions. Unfortunately, (a) we could rarely get her close enough to see (I'm 6' and 14 odd stone and I even I was being pushed out of the way so my poor daughter didn't stand a chance) and (b) when we did, the "exhibitors" weren't really interested in her questions anyway (with the exception of the chap showing the Talyllyn model, who would have talked for ever about it!). Throw in the fact that the entry fee was quite high, the refreshments were downright expensive, there was very little N gauge kit for sale and it was a total disappointment all round!

I couldn't agree more. As an adult coming relatively new into the hobby, I get treated in quite an offhand manner when I ask questions born out of ignorance, so what chance do the youngsters stand. I think it's wonderful that my daughter is taking an interest - I really want to encourage her, but it's blooming difficult when she sees the sort of example that we came across on Saturday. Stafford - "nil points" "

Based on your comments about Warwick we will have to try them next year. We took our own food and drink due to our son's limited diet and I am diabetic but my wife did comment as we passed the food that how pleased she was we took a packed lunch !

I used to live on the Staff's border and I too was very disappointed with the rude & arrogant behaviour of the other punters and exhibitors.

Mark Goodge wrote :-

" ........ Considering the number of layouts on display, I thought the admission price was fair and the cost of the show programme (only a quid) was good value ........ "

Yes the number of layouts the admission price would have been fair ... if you could have seen them without a rugby scrum ..... but I must admit the show programme was the best set out and detailed I have seen to date and as you say only =A31 ( paid for in part with the adverts ).

Kevin Harper also wrote :-

" Other than the comment about the catering, I'm not criticising the organisers. I mentioned in my original post how well I thought the ladies handling the tickets did their job; the marshalling was good, the car parking was good and the venue was about right. My big beef really is with the way both the exhibitors and the punters handled a child with obvious disabilities and a father who is a newbie to the hobby. The contrast between Stafford and Warwick was amazing! As I said originally, at Warwick both mine and my daughters questions were dealt with really well by both the exhibitors and traders (they really did share their love of the hobby plus I picked up a lot of tips) and the punters were civilised, actually moving out of the way so my daughter could have a good look at the layouts. "

Agree 100%

Chris

We found the exhibitors at the Derby ( Mickleover ) exhibition are the best we have experienced to date. A large number of them either had autistic children / relatives or were teachers / careers, that may explain our good reception but they were polite & helpful to everyone.

Another place we found a mixed reception was @ The Midland Railway Centre, Butterley in Derbyshire. We went on a Thomas Christmas Special and also visited the model railway they have on site run by a local club. The preservation staff were not very helpful but the lads on the layout and in the back room were 1st class plus you can get about 20% off Hornby models from their 'shop'.

Did you visit Burton recently (not the DEMU they arent proper !). We got there quite late on the 2nd day when it was very quiet. Couldnt meet a friendlier bunch. his lordship sat in front of a plank shunting diesel/electric layout with sound for a good 15 mins. Every time i checked was waved away, everyone happy and he must have chewed theryre ears off by then. Perhaps theyd already been deafened.

Some really interesting stuff in view and a number of people willing to explain things.

Cheers, Simon

Would that be the LMS ex-LNER K4 ? OK might have come to see it, but if you can keep to quality engines defintately more interesting !

Cheers, Simon

Simon wrote :-

" Did you visit Burton recently (not the DEMU they arent proper !). We got there quite late on the 2nd day when it was very quiet. Couldnt meet a friendlier bunch. his lordship sat in front of a plank shunting diesel/electric layout with sound for a good 15 mins. Every time i checked was waved away, everyone happy and he must have chewed theryre ears off by then. Perhaps theyd already been deafened.

Some really interesting stuff in view and a number of people willing to explain things. "

No we missed that one ... one of us was ill if I recall. Where is it held ? Sounds like a good show, have to try next year.

Our son is like that, at the last Derby show one of the younger exhibitors let him operate his Thomas & friends loco's and despite going a little too fast once or twice ( our controller has been limited to a lower 'top speed' ) and the loco's being derailed the young chap never complained but just helped our son put them back. We could have left him there till they closed up @ 5 pm !

If you get a chance try the Bass Museum, it has a 'child friendly' loco display plus other good displays, you also get a 'free' half pint of beer at the end !

" not the DEMU they arent proper ! " sorry you've lost me ?

Regards

Chris

"Jane Sullivan" wrote That's where they are disposing of all those bird-flu-infected turkeys, AIUI.