L&Y Railway control numbers (on brake vans)

Folks,
Back in the dim and distant when men were men and all the good railways started in Lancashire the L&Y introduced a scheme of control numbers that
they'd paint on the side of their goods brakes. They followed the scheme of double digit, comma, small digit, large digit or alternatively double digit, comma, double digit.
Does anyone know how these control numbers were allocated and/or an on-line source?
--

All the best,

Chris
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responding to http://www.polytechforum.com/uk-trains/l-y-railway-control-numbers-on-brake-vans-64003-.htm , Totnado wrote: > cwilson wrote: > > Folks, > > Back in the dim and distant when men were men and all the good railways > > started in Lancashire the L&Y introduced a scheme of control > numbers that > they'd paint on the side of their goods brakes. They followed the > scheme of > double digit, comma, small digit, large digit or alternatively double > digit, > comma, double digit. > > Does anyone know how these control numbers were allocated and/or an > on-line > source? > > -- > > All the best, > > Chris >
Hi,
Not sure I can be too much help just at this moment but many of the LYR., stock was renumbered after the LMS took much of it over in 1932/3. Details of these can be found in Appendix ll of "LMS., Coaches An Illustrated History; None passenger stock Livery". So let me know just or exactly what your dates are and I can ask a good pal of mine if he can throw any light upon your query as he is the president of the current LYR., and if anybody should he should, don't you think? I will most probably see him at the MMRS., club night on Wednesday or if that is too early on Monday next. Also let me know if you have the Jenkinson & Essery book mentioned and if not I can dig a bit deeper into mine for you. Cheers, ChrisPSR
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That's very lind thanks but no it wasn't a LMS scheme, pure L&Y. After grouping the numbers were gradually dropped. I'm waiting on Coates Vol 2 of L&Y goods stock which I'm hoping will cover teh subject a little but although it's in the house it's embargoed until Christmas by my loving wife.
--

All the best,

Chris
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[cross-posting mended]
I had a look in the Midland books in case they had used a similar system for Control reporting of goods trains, but it seems not. The Midland system involved six or seven lettered boards slotted onto the side of goods brake vans, which between them encoded departure station or yard, departure time and destination.
I have the impression you are describing more permanent marking, but such operational details seem to be only rarely detailed in pre-group railway histories, especially when they perhaps involved more of a system of operation. Most photos as you will know concentrate on locos or passenger trains - even if a goods train was pictured the brake van of course being out of shot at the back ! Good luck anyway,
Nick
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"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
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I intentionally didn't cross post some railway folks don't like modellers and vice versa :-)

Yes, it was the perminant mark up on the sides of the "Tin Tabs" I was thinking of. I have Coate's Vol 1 of L&Y Goods vehicles but it doesn't make mention of the system except in passing. I'm hoping that it's mentioned in greater depth in Vol 2 but SWHTBO has embarged that until Christmas :-) I was just trying to get a head start.
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All the best,

Chris
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Apols, I just figure we pre grouping people are our own clan in both camps :-)

Good luck again anyway. I saw whilst researching the question that there is a second volume of L&Y Wagons out involving brake vans and it may have some photographic clues.
I was also quite surprised to read en route that the L&Y didn't mark their wagons with letters until well into the 1900s. Before that they used an "illiterate mark" of an upwards pointing triangle in a circle. Until now I'd only known of the North Staffs ake "Knotty Railway" as having such a mark and their knot is so visual you would associate the two immediately. There is probably much social comment to be made from the jump from illiterate marks to a control system in so few decades but I am in so state of sobriety to make it.
Anyway have lots of fun researching !
Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
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Only 72 days to wait!
--
Martin S.

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They'll be advertising Easter by then
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All the best,

Chris
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