just when i thought i had my 6013 flat welds looking great I started
trying T joints. I get two parallel beads on each plate but no joint.
Oddest thing ive ever seen. I was using 3/32 6013's on 1/8inch mild
steel. No matter what i do I cant get a decent weld bead with 6014
here. I can do it ok with 6011. Is it my amps? i was using i think 110
At that amperage, it sounds like your using DCEP.
Using a positive electrode puts more heat on the electrode causing
less penetration of the joined pieces, which matches what you have said.
Try AC or DCEN. You should be able to reduce that current also.
The intricacies of nature is man's cannon fodder.
You should get a really good fillet with 3/32nd-inch (2.5mm) 6013.
Max. current of 2.5mm 6013 is 90Amps. But you will get a small
fillet-corner lack-of-fusion defect - certainly when welding 1/4-inch
(6mm) plate. Should be almost an academic point - tiny defect
revealed on break test - with good technique.
In UK there is a culture taught in vocational colleges of using 2.5mm
(3/32nd-inch) 6013's at 120A to 130A on a for root run. "There is no
other choice to get full penetration" - which is the standard which has
to be met (bit unrealistic?). No other electrodes exists. 6011 if
suggested isn't acceptable - that is a pipe-welding electrode *only*,
so no, that suggestion is not acceptable. I cannot recommend the 2.5mm
6013 @ 120A to 130A approach - no-one has proved that the violation of
the 90A max. current recommendation has no detriment to weld quality
in this specific circumstance of running a fillet root-run. By the
way; if you do this, you get a slag adherence which you wish you had a
small pneumatic chisel to get rid of - it's really really adherent.
6013 slag should be self-peeling...
For full fillet-corner fusion, use 6011 (or 6010?) at 70A (its
max. current limit). Hold open arc, just as you would for 6013 or
xx18. You usually have to slightly whip the rod backwards and
forwards by about half to a full core wire diameter, to get
well-formed (not broken) weld pool and a nice flat root fillet with
negligible if any undercut. Search for other posts s.e.j.w. on this
topic. "drag" the rod and you for sure get very fulsome corner fusion
but a humped weld bead with slag-traps down the two sides - not a
Good 6011 root then cap with a 6013 is v. good fillet-weld option.
On 1/8th plate (3mm), will have no need or room for a cap. Suggest
6013 at 90A, and do a slightly larger bead to compensate for any
putative corner defect. 1/4inch (6mm) fillet face width is the
"ideal" when welding 1/8th-inch plate - so slightly larger than that
by a mm (1/32nd-inch) or so and you have a weld which as strong and
fit for purpose as any can be.
[Everyone - am I saying this right???]
With 6013 root - which is honestly a totally reasonable choice for
handrails and frankly even structural things - as all fillet welds
even if fully fused have a "corner defect" with that "crack"
represented by where the upright plate rests on the base plate - I can
think of a couple of reasons for what you are getting. Are you
running too slowly, so slag is being running forward of the weld and
being entrapped under the weld with slag standing firm in the corner?
Your run-out should be about the rod length. Can be a bit shorter,
but not hugely so. And your rod angle. Your rod slope is a drag
angle of about 70deg to 60deg to the plate (20deg to 30deg off
vertical)? So the arc is pushing the slag back off the weld-pool
front as it fuses along the plate... Your tilt is 45deg into the
corner, equally bisecting the T-joint angle.
In summary, you should get a really nice fillet bead with 6013. Hope
you find the conditions and they start coming out nice.
Done bit of math regarding run-out length.
(* 6 3 (/ 1.0 2)) 9.0 ; this is the calc. for fillet c.s.a.
(* pi 2.5 2.5 (/ 1.0 4)) 4.908738521234052 ; this is the rod c.s.a.
So at least 9mm of weld cross-sectional-area and only 5mm of rod
So to go to adequate fillet size in one run, your run-out (the lenght
of weld you deposit) must be about half the rod length. That's a bit
You want a a run-out about the rod length with 6013.
So need a root run and a cap.
So could do
3/32nd (2.5mm) 6011 root and 2.5mm 6013 cap
2.5mm 6013 root and 2.5mm 6013 cap.
In both cases, need to weave for cap. Arc into corner between root
run and plate - jump from top to bottom juntions, with the pause being
on while above the junction. Slight "C" motion so sweep "backwards"
as crossing - but only ever so slightly. Rod tilt can stay at 45deg
Will keenly look for follow-up advice and corrections...
"Albie" wrote in news:1128130672.106933.324530
The beginning of my 3/32" 6013 fillet beads look the same a lot of the
time. I thought it might be because it was crappy rod but I guess not.
From my (limited) experience and attempts at solving this problem you need
to lower the amps to around 90. Sounds like the puddle is too molten and
the slag is getting ahead and into the corner forcing the metal to the
sides. Assuming the rod angle is correct, make sure the rod is dragging in
the corner so the metal goes where it's supposed to. Run it as you would
7014 rod. There should be no weaving on that first bead.
hope this helps,
In addition to the advice from others, here's another .02 --
6013 can run beautifully, but it can also be a royal pain, at least in my
(hobby weldor) experience. The problem is that if you ever get slag ahead of
the direction of travel, it makes the weld puddle run off like ink off of
crayon--and once the problem starts, it seems to perpetuate itself. So the
trick is not to let the slag get ahead of you.
One of the most important things, I find, is to get the rod tip right down
at the joint -- if you hold even a slightly long arc, you invite the slag to
run ahead. Also, sometimes I find that it is harder to avoid this problem if
the amps are too low -- but as others have mentioned, your amps sound
outrageously high. Of course, different machines very often are marked
differently -- 90 amps on one machine may be 75 amps on another -- but FWIW,
for that sort of joint in 1/8 steel, using 3/32 rod, I would be running at
75 to 85 amps on my machine. OTOH, when I had a 110v buzz box, I had trouble
getting enough heat even at its max setting (100 amps). You're not using a
110v machine, by any chance?
One other issue is joint fitup. If you have very much of a gap between the
pieces to be joined, it can trap the slag, and again the weld puddle just
peels off on either side. Highly frustrating when it happens ...
Hope this helps! Let us know how it goes ...
Well I tried it again, using suggestions, I am sad to say that nothing
has changed, I tried AC , dcep, dcen, 65 to 100 amps. Spend a good 2
hours experimenting. All with no real noticable differences other than
what you would expect with lower voltage. I tried dragging, weaving
like I do with 6011, I even did this. I laid the T joint exactly like
a V in a vice so the weld puddle would supposedly lay perfectly. But it
still did the same thing. Either bead on the upper piece or bead on the
lower piece but no luck. I then broke out my trusty 6011 and went DCEP
as usual and fixed the problem ! Problem is now solved as far as I am
concered. I threw away my 6013 and will stick with what I know, 6011.
Thanks for suggestions though.
I'm just about forbidden to use 6011 for root. It's amazing that is
the standard technique in N.Am. yet here in UK, have instructors
coming around saying don't want to see you using 6011 for root again.
Get good results, better pen. and and good bead shape, but technique
not recognised. Anyway, harked on about this before, so I will put
some tape over my mouth and get back to 6013 root...