How would you?

I am getting some drill pipe. Recommended to be welded with 11018 rods to keep from cracking. I need to weld on some very light purlins, 12-14 ga.
Should I weld a plate on top of the pipe, then MIG the purlin on the plate? Or do you think I can weld the pipe directly to the purlin welding in the overhead position if I keep the puddle on the pipe? And if I do, what would be the chances on cracking.
This is going to be a pole barn. Pole supports. Horizontal purlins, sheeting on top. Should flex a lot. Should I add cross bracing?
Thanks.
Steve
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The purlins are going to rest on the pipes, above the pipes? And the sheeting would be placed on the purlins?
<-sheeting-> <-purlins--> <--pipe---->
If so, I would not lose sleep worrying about welds cracking, the only purpose of the welds is to keep the purlins in place, the welds would not be carrying much of a tensile stress.
Am I way off base?
i
i

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wrote:

A pretty good grasp, other than the fact that we get 60+ mph winds. I am thinking of crossbracing it a lot. The corrugated is very thick, and I was going to either rosette weld it, or drill a strong self tap using a lot of self taps.
Steve
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Crossbracing is just a separate issue. The welds holding purlins should survive the wind just fine, assuming they are half good (and knowing you, I am sure it will be the same). As for the whole structure surviving the wind, I agree that some crossbracing would help.
i
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Do you really have drill pipe? or do you have sucker rod (much more common). Drill pipe is used on a drill rig to bore the hole. Sucker rod is used on a production well and is much more common on the used market. In oil patch country 96.71% of the barns, sheds, shops and even a few houses are framed with sucker rod. Regular old 7018 has been used since the stone age on that material for pole barns. A lot of guys run a pass with 6010 and then a fat one with 7018 (much, much cheaper than 11018). Magnetism can be a problem, as with any steel that's been in the earth for a time.
JTMcC

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It's local 2"+ water drilling pipe. Threaded shoulders.
Steve
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Personally I'd just weld it with 7018, I've built quite a few fishing tools (plus a lot of other misc drill pipe work) for local water well outfits and that's what they recomend and what I use. I've also welded large diameter blast drill pipe with 7018 many times in the large open pit nimes. These are applicationd that see quite a bit of torque. You aren't trying to develope the full strength of the parent material in the weld deposit (you're using a high alloy scrap material) you're only trying to add a deposit that will sustain more strain than the structure will ever endure. And an undermatched filler metal will give you better ductility and resistance to the innevitable slight flexing the building will endure (concentrated at the weld joints) several thousand times per year. It's the ultimate arguement for undermatched filler in my opinion. If you're a wondering about any undermatch problems such as underbead cracking, you can weld a few test samples, let them sit for a day, and attempt to destroy them with unreasonable force from either a large beater or a hydraulic jack or several fat chics (assuming you know several fat chics....... just sayin'). Drill pipe/sucker rod is welded all across the world wide oil patch with 7018 for structural applications with good success and it's a relatively high alloy material. In fact there are several million pole type barns built around the patch where all structural rigidity is provided by the drill pipe/sucker rod welded with whatever rod the farmer had handy, and the sheeting applied with nails thru holes in the drill rod and bent over on the inside (of course this adds no rigidity to the structure, the sheeting is just along for the ride). I'm not recomending it, just observing that it's been done since probably the early 30's that way. Loooong before LoHi was invented and way long before 11018. Small diameter wire rope makes very effective cross bracing in jobs like yours, fast and innexpensive. It's cheap so no need to scrimp. Only a small clip is needed to attach it or you can poorboy and burn a hole for the cable. Your sheeting will be the most effective bracing if you use enough screws but good snug wire rope X braces will withstand WAY, WAY over 60 mph winds. In fact you can easily make the structure solid enough thru welding that you only need enough screws to keep the sheeting from blowing off into New Mexico.
JTMcC.

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When I lived in So. Louisiana, it was amazing the things one would see made out of very very very expensive oilfield stuff.
Boiling racks for seafood were made out of pipe flange gaskets. Mailbox posts out of anchor chain. Even saw one that had a four foot section of stabilizer, complete with the three vanes on it. Drill pipe fences for miles. Just huge overkill for fences and mail boxes that cost a lot. Even some drill bits, except for Hughes. (Hughes was never sold, only leased. Hughes could confiscate one on the spot, no questions asked.)
Sure did a number on kids and cars who liked to go out at night and (try to) destroy mailboxes. Every now and then, there's be a picture in a paper with a car wrapped around an anchor chain mailbox. Lots of broken Louisville Sluggers, too.
That had to hurt.
Steve
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But I love that part of the world, real nice people existing

I love that old country western song,
Hey, Okie, if you see Arkie, Tell Him Tex has got a job for him, out in Californee.......
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JT I think I have a question that is right up your alley.
I have been teaching welding for 16 years now. As much as my first and greatest love is TIG, where I teach I have to focus on stick. I only get the Diver students for 3 weeks to give them a very basic knowledge of stick welding, so I only worry about 6010 and 7018.
The question I have never found an answer to is why does Lincoln still sell 5P? 5p+ is so much easier to clean, and only costs a few bucks more a can. I just don't get it. Is it like acetylene, where every body just keeps buying it out of habit, even though you only really need it if you are gas welding?
I get asked by my students every time we accidentally get a can of 5P from the supplier instead of 5p+.
Is there some trick that the red 5P stuff does that makes is better for certain jobs than the grey 5P+?.
I can't tell much difference in how they burn.
Any help would be appreciated. I figure you have run 1000 times more 6010 that I ever will in my lifetime.
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snipped-for-privacy@stagesmith.com says...

JTMcC will have a better answer, based on his experience. Your question piqued my interest, so I took a look here:
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/c210.pdf
And the only real difference that I see is that Lincoln states that 5P is great on dirty, rusty steel, whereas 5P+ is great on steel that's "not so clean."
Some distinction, eh? Perhaps if you have more rust than sound metal you use 5P. More metal than rust, use 5P+.
Relatively small difference in their material properties too, in yield and tensile strengths, but I wouldn't think that those differences would be the deciding factor.
Just my $0.02 worth, if that.
--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long
  Click to see the full signature.
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For use on the lower grades of pipe. 5P+ (and 6P+) are designed for one thing, putting a bead (the first pass) in open butt V pipe joints, it's quite a bit better than 5P at that and is the best rod currently available. It's quite a bit worse than 5P for hot pass, fill and cap where it has a pronounced tendency to bug hole. So it's common to see a written procedure on say grade B pipe for a 5P+ bead and either 5P HP/fill/cap or a choice of 5P or 5P+ for HP/fill/cap. Welders will almost always use 5P if given that choice. Some company procedures will call for 5P+ all the way out but that just makes the welders job harder and slows production.
70+ or 8P+ (standard line pipe 8010 rods) are more user friendly than the old 5P but are overkill on that grade pipe and cost more. Some gas companies will call out one of the 7010's in place of 5P. Different rods for different grades of pipe, but the poor characteristics of 5P+ on hot pass, fill and particularly cap passes keep 5P in business.
JTMcC.
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Hi John, long time....
I tested for PGE for a job at Hinkley few years ago and they called out specifically regular 5P. When questioning the inspector about it as the specs said 5P or better, he said it HAD to be 5p because they didn't have a procedure for 5P+ and they weren't going to change it. Go figure. Good to see you on here again. Catch up to you later...
Jess at that SMALL company..............still. 30 years in April.
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Hi Mr. Jess how you been? You're just addicted to the smell of H2S huh? Have they cut back a lot over the last year? Lot's of drilling activity ramping up in North Dakota and Pennsylvania.
JTMcC

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Yes, the first cutback we lost about 220 people. Second time around about 150 people. That was company wide, Kern River, Belridge, Kernridge, Cymric. Well, nowadays, with all the safety and operators giving out permits, I would be stupid to go somewhere else. We only get about 4 to 5 hours a day welding time. This SMALL company got some work up there and will be manning up pretty quick for there. Finishing up some 18" at present. Lots of little 6" and 8" steam projects going. Was stuck in the Station 36 area for a year. Hopefully I am out now. Feels good to be able to weld again. Plant was okay, but the permits, the crew I was with, the permits, the waiting on equipment, tools, etc. was just a killer for Chevron. I didn't mind it, sometimes I would go all week on a tank of fuel in my machine. LOTS of waiting..Good to hear from you, take care and keep up the work...
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Interesting. So when my students are working towards a 6G pipe test they should stick with the 5P+ for their root.
I am a bit puzzled by using 6010 for fill and cover passes, as I thought they would infuse too much hydrogen for a multi pass weld.
I thought it was all 7018 fill and cover.
What is the purpose of an all 6010 pipe weld?
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Yea 5P+ is the best thing available for that.
There are a lot of factors that affect hydrogen cracking and it's a study in itself (the large, cheap books by Omar Blodgett that the Lincoln Foundation puts out are a good place to start) but in main line construction, gathering systems, distribution systems and quite a few other places the piping is welded almost exclusively with cellulose rods/downhill including the higher grades and heavier wall (over 1") thickness'.
It's fast, it's cost effective and Lincoln has a lot of very refined downhill pipe consumables that work really well.
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I agree with JTMcC, but wish to add that (at least here north of 49) fill and cap procedures are usually location dependant. Outside the fence, downhill and xx10 is normal but inside the fence most work is uphill with xx18.
Outside the fence speed is king, and downhill allows the use of higher current and larger rods for high deposition rates. In addition, the pipe is normally buried which gives it added support and much more constant operating temperature. The consequence of failure can be lower.
Inside the fence the pipe is usually above ground and subject to much more variation in operating (and ambient)temperature and pressures. IIRC the codes are also different, and the consequence of failure can be higher.
For non code work such as water system piping, procedures are often not specified and the weldor can use their own discretion and experience. Small dia. propane and natural gas systems were commonly done with OA, but most are now plastic.
JMHE &.02
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In the U.S. just about all natural gas piping is downhill even in the stations.
Power piping and Process Piping are traditionally uphill with LoHi or alloy consumables. The materials used in Power/Process piping almost always have to be very corrosion resistant alloys and that a lot of times takes them out of cellulose consumable land and dictates the consumables used.
A 42" natural gas or gasoline/jet fuel/diesel main line operating at 2000 psi close to houses poses a pretty significant risk in the event of a failure. But every weld in a transmission system is made with a 3rd party inspector present, will have a visual, x-ray and a pressure test before going into service. Again, that's in the U.S.
JTMcC.
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snip

While we all need to be mindful of consequence, there is often a much greater QC focus on the welds & weldors than on the pipe itself.
I worked on a huge oil sands upgrader project that was built using very large prefabed modular pipe racks. After the modules were placed and connected, the piping was pressure tested which resulted in several weldors being skidded due to failures and leaks adjacent to their welds. When the repairs also leaked, somebody thought to test the (offshore produced, Romanian?) pipe which resulted in the replacement of something like 25 miles of defective porous pipe, some as large as 48". Lots of work for cranes and weldors/pipefitters to remove and replace (and reinsulate) the pipe from the large multi level racks.
I understand some of our upgraded bitumen is going to Oklahoma for refining, you may see some of the pipeline work.
Worksafe.
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