So about this 7014 rod.....

As I was told, longer ago than I care to remember: 7014 is NOT suitable for anything that is subject to dynamic loading, eg, reversals of stress or strain. It is plenty strong enough, but is not DUCTILE enough.
7014 is suitable for dynamic loading, _if_ used in combination with an electrode that is suitable for dynamic loading. If you have to use 601x or 7018 anyways, why bother with another electrode?
IMO, the outstanding quality of 7014 is the appearance of the finished bead. If you need a nice looking bead, and cant/wont be dressing the weld 7014, it would be first choice.
IIRC, in sizes above 1/8", it becomes 7024(flat or horizontal only)
But nothing can touch it (7018) for overall mechanical properties, when used correctly. It's not the answer to all your electrode welding issues, but it solves so many that people forget that there are other electrodes worth using, in the right circumstances.
I have some other info from the textbooks, if anyone is interested in anything further on this topic.

14 and 24 are iron powder rods. I like to think of them as a high fill, high production rods before wire feeds became common. If there is no need for low hydrogen requirements they are nice rods to run. I used to use 14 for two inch tubing frames. I have used 7014 vertical down but amperage, speed and angle are critical compared to 6013 which is my choice for guards and covers. 7014 is also called a contact rod because you can run a bead by just laying the edge of the flux on the metal and letting the rod burn off on its own. My personal opinion is that too much importance is placed on low hydrogen requirements. For primary structures it is understandable but for furniture, wall brackets, guards, covers and racking 7014 is a good choice. 7028 is even faster. These rods have little penetration so weld preps are essential if penetration is needed. I didn't notice that you listed 7028 as one you use in welding school. In BC students must use all these rods in assigned exercises. Randy
Sicn several people had raved about 7014 stick electrode, I decided to buy a box they had at Boeing Surplaus. I got 40 lbs of 1/8" Hobart 7014 for $20.
I figure we can use the stuff at school. At school we only stock 6010, 6011, 7024, and 7018, in bulk. We have dozens of other rods, but those 4 are the main ones we teach with. 6010 is an amazing repair rod, 6011 will darn near stick to anything, and 7018 is the standard of the construction industry. 7024 is a really smooth flat-only rod for heavy fill, but it is just not used much anymore as far as I can tell.
I started playing with the 7014 in class tonight. Now I am curious about what the best technique is for this stuff. I tried vertical up several different ways; a slow vertical stringer bead with a tiny wiggle like 7018, and a whipped bead like 6011. It kind of worked both ways. Just for the hell of it I tried a vertical down at 120 amps on 1/4". Very pretty bead.
The stuff strikes an arc so quickly, just like 7024, and in general runs really smooth.
So just wondering if anybody wants to share some 7014 tricks-of-the-trade.
Why isn't this stuff used more?
7018 is just such a pain in the ass to use, and it is a constant frustration to my students.

I have never even seen 7028.
I used up an old box of 1/4" 7026 that we had aging in our back room when I had to weld up some chunks of 4" plate to make an anvil. That 7026 was nice stuff, but appears to be no longer made.
I have also been playing with 309L SS rod. Absolutely gorgeous flat fillet welds, but what a pain in the ass in other positions.
We have piles of SS rods in our store room. Somebody donated about 500 lbs of 308L, 309L, 316L, and 317L rod to us a few years ago. We will never use the stuff up.
We also have about 500 lbs of various Stoody rods that were donated by a local welding sales rep when he retired.

Never experienced '28???? You truly have missed out... It was common stick for those who didn't have flux core. The first time I saw it used was for modifying the base of surplus army tanks. The shop would receive the units minus turret then cut the top area off until they had a bath tub on tracks. The gas engine was removed and a 3-71 put in. You had an instant track drill after hanging a rock drill unit on one end. Anyway they used big rods. They were extra long and I am guessing at 3/16 diameter. Randy
I have never even seen 7028.
I used up an old box of 1/4" 7026 that we had aging in our back room when I had to weld up some chunks of 4" plate to make an anvil. That 7026 was nice stuff, but appears to be no longer made.
I have also been playing with 309L SS rod. Absolutely gorgeous flat fillet welds, but what a pain in the ass in other positions.
We have piles of SS rods in our store room. Somebody donated about 500 lbs of 308L, 309L, 316L, and 317L rod to us a few years ago. We will never use the stuff up.
We also have about 500 lbs of various Stoody rods that were donated by a local welding sales rep when he retired.

I believe 7024 actually is a low hydrogen rod, as I have seen it used in pressure vessel work where low H is required. Fabulous stuff, but flat only. Top operators can actully run it verticle, though I have only met a few people that can. Still a popular rod in tank work, and maybe shipyards. Great cosmetics with little training, reliable mechancal properties, doesn't require extreme cleanliness (just don't run over slag-- it doesn't have the washing ability of a 6010 or a 7018). Slag peels itself off, almost no cleaning required with correct heat.
Dito for '24
. . Why is '18 a pain? I love the stuff as a do-most-things, medium rate rod. Very controllable, lays a nice even bead, and with the exception of some Lincoln MR, very easy to clean, almost as easy as '24.

The stuff my boss insists on buying for school is Lincoln Excalibur 7018. I really don't like the stuff as much as what we used to get, which I think was a Hobart rod. This stuff sticks like crazy, and the slag is tenacious like all hell.

7014 and 7024 are much the same the 7014 has about 30% iron in the coating, and the 7024 has near 50%. One thing I like about 7014 is that I don't need to store it in any special way. With 7018 I am forced to buy small amounts and sometimes it seems bad out of the box. My nearest welding supply is a bit of a drive, so sometimes I will hit the auto store. I have a 50 pound box of both 7014 and 7024 and they keep good. the 7024 is for the flats, the 7014 is for the flats and more. One nice thing is how if you do a nice weld the flux just peels off as the weld cools. I would say I use more 7014 than anything, but I don't do any code critcal welds.

snipped-for-privacy@makowicki.com (wayne) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:
Get yourself some military ammo boxes, they are great for storing electrodes, they are sealed steel cases with toggle/cam lever lids with rubber seals on the lids. I have several different sizes the smallest size holds about 50lbs each, and I have several larger ones that hold several hundred pounds a piece, that I have put dividers in to separate the different electrodes types and sizes. One I have casters on and can roll it around the shop. They all have nice carrying handles. Buy electrodes in the 50lb sealed can, then cut open and transfer to the ammo boxes quickly. The electrodes stay dry. You take what you need out of the ammo boxes and transfer to smaller sealed containers, and QUICKLY close ammo box, so the rods do not pick up moister. I have several small containers that I can carry on my person while welding made from the smaller thin walled PVC 1" and 2" pipe, that I have cut to electrode length,and placed PVC end caps over each end. With a small twist it seals excellent, small twist the cap comes off and you can get the electrodes out quickly, and seal quickly, you can make them small enough that you can put them in your back Levis pockets, belt holder etc. (3/4", 1", 2" PVC pipe) Or you can make larger ones from larger PVC pipes and caps. I have over 300 pounds of 7018 that I purchased several years ago in the 50 lb.steel containers that is as dry as the day I bought it, and I live in the deep south at this time, where the humidity is very high. The electrodes would be moister laden in just a short time because the humidity is very high, and the electrodes soak up the moister like a sponge. If you leave any electrode out of a container, it will be sweaty with moister with in a few hours. BUT all my electrodes are as dry as the day I bought them storing and preserving them in this manner, the key thing is to get what you need quickly from the ammo boxes, close it, and put the electrodes in smaller sealed storage containers to eliminate having to open the ammo box all the time, exposing the electrodes to humidity in the air.
Kruppt

AFAIK, there are two major rod manufacturers in the US... ESAB (I think their okant is in PA) and Lincoln, The rest of the "makers" either relabel these two or import from overseas ... China is about to become the worlds #1 steel supplier, and rod is a major export. I tend to use ESAB in '18, as the local suppliers only carry the MR in Lincoln, and this is sticky wih a really tenacious slag. I think the Hobart is relabeled Lincoln, but can't swear to it. I can't comment on other current Lincoln '18 rods. Anyone know if they are the same?
Re: '18 overhead: Two key things-- work the rod at a light angle sidewys to wash the slag out of the weld, and shove the rod in and keep shoving. Don't run too hot (at least a few percent cooler than flat) or you can't get fast freeeze and end up with undercut and inclusions. '18 was developed with overhead in mind.

Which type is it? 309L-16? Stainless electrodes vary a LOT in the way they run. One brand of 309L-16 can be very different in behaviour from another 309L-16, even from the same manufacturer. For instance, Lincoln makes three kinds of 309L-16.. Stainweld, Blue Max, and Red Baron, and each of them behave differently under different conditions. If you can tell me precisely what you want to do with the electrode (what position, up or down, etc.) then I can tell you the optimal electrode to use for that application, but usually you just use the minimum amperage to make it flow and just go for it.

The 309L I have is Blue Max by Lincoln. 3/32", 1/8" and 5/32".
I was trying to figure out how to do vertical fillet welds with it, but gave up in frustration.
I figured there has got to be some way to do it.

Is there any way to get pretty welds on Vertical Up. 6011 style whipping gives a lumpy appearance, and 7018 style stringers, look even stranger.
That seems odd since one is a 60 Kpsi and the other is a 70 Kpsi rod.
I guess it just seems weird that after 70 years of stick welding we are still using such a PIA rod for all code quality structural work.
Sometimes I really wish the US industrial culture was more inclined towards technological progress. The few German rods I have run by UTP and Bohler Thyssen were just so damn nice to weld with, but my boss at school likes to buy what everybody is using on the job. I understand why, but I would still like to show my students thgat there are better rods out there.
No wonder dual-shield and flux-core are taking over.
I have yet to play with the new Lincoln flux-core wire NR-233. I know they had to do something fast. ESAB was taking a chunk out of their business with Coreshield 8.
The Lincoln rep was actually worried about how much marketshare they had lost to Coreshield 8 in just a few years.
Having run both Coreshield 8 and NR-232, I would take the Coreshield 8 anyday.

Kruppt, This means you do not use a rod oven for 7018 and are able to store it successfully, eh? If so, then I think I could start using 7018 in my hobby welding projects. Ciao, David Todtman
(Humm....where to get ammo boxes....in Canada....?)

"David Todtman" wrote in news:QHsXa.642618$ snipped-for-privacy@news1.calgary.shaw.ca:
I have a rod oven, never use it. I store the 7018 electrodes just as I mentioned. Just make sure when you buy your electrodes that the seal on the case/carton has not been damaged. By the way I forgot mention a important part with the PVC pipe containers, take a light grit sand paper and LIGHTLY rough the tube ends. Hold the sand paper around the tube end, and twist the tube with the other hand, makes a better seal, and the caps come off easier. Don't get carried away, you just want to rough up/remove the skin a little. The key is to never leave your rods open to the air for any length of time, as they will soak up moister from the air. If you think your rods have picked up to much moister, put them in your house oven, no biggy. Or as you use them, short the electrode direct to what your welding first for a few seconds,till the moister smokes off, then weld. For hobby use this will work out just fine.
Kruppt
Kruppt

7018, for those that make their living with it is not a pain, it's an easy rod to run. In fact it's probably the easiest rod to get slick with for the average welder. U.S. industry is very inclined to the most cost effective means to an end. People not in the business may not see the reasoning, but rest assured, people making much more than you and me are constantly searching for a more efficient way on every thing from welding process to shrink wrap.
Your definition of "better" probably has no relation to Loyds, FEMA, ASME, AWS, API ect.'s definition of "better". They are taking over because of deposition rate.
On code work, no one is going to ask you, or me. And, no one is going to give you a choice, or me either. If FEMA says 232, then 232 it is, and they specify by brand, you can't substitute something just because it has more operator appeal for the inexperienced, or for any other reason. Out in the garage, you can pick and choose your consumables, but most of us have the specification dictated by one code or another, regardless of ease of use.
JTMcC.