Universal Rod, polarity??

Awl--
I'm looking for an "idiot-proof" rod, and just got off the phone with
perhaps the largest welding supply house in these here parts, who in fact
carries an idiot rod, all-purpose, all position rod, called MG-500.
A little pricey, at $9.15/lb list, for 3/32. Might get it for $7/lb, but
still pricey.
The guy also recommended 7018 as a good all-purpose rod as well, and also
6013 (at $3.50/lb)
It seems most general welding is done with 60xx rod, at least around here.
Any opinions on the best "universal" rod?
I do mostly rough mock-up work in 1/8" HR, some 16 ga. tubing, occasionally
an I-beam or channel for machine support. I prefer softer alloy rod, as I
often have to break a weld, bend stuff, grind, etc.
HD sells a Lincoln 60xx rod for $10-11 for 5 lb, considerably cheaper than
the welding supply, but it is absolutely awful.
The rod sticks like crazy, the flux spatters furiously at heats where the
rod is less prone to sticking.
I'll actually have to return it, and get "real" rod from a welding supplier.
I am a little surprised tho, as I didn't think Lincoln made crappy stuff.
Might this be a "made for HD" Lincoln product? I never had this problem
before.
Any standard brands out there, or is rod sort of a commodity, whose flavor
varies by region?
Lastly, when is AC preferable to straight DC?
I have a Miller Econotig, ca 1996, which puts out more heat on AC, but the
welds seems crappier, so I stick with straight DC 99% of the time.
tia.
Reply to
Proctologically Violated©®
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"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message news:NuBJh.9$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe12.lga...
Your pricey rod is intended for people who think that if they pay more it must be better. I bet dollars to doughnuts it doesn't even have an AWS number. I was told by one snake oil salesman that his rod was so good it didn't need an number. Yeh right! Certainly the recommendation of 6013 and 7018 are good. E 6013 can run any polarity and AC. It is a very versatile electrode and well suited to thin wall tubing and material under 1/8th. I tend to run whatever brand is given to me and rely on the AWS number. I like 6013 on straight polarity, electrode negative or if I have to AC. E 7018 is a good rod for heavier sections say over 1/4 inch thick. Cellulose rods such as 6010 and 6011 behave wildly and if you don't know how to control an arc and the puddle they are difficult for a beginner. Randy

Reply to
Randy Zimmerman
MG-500 is manufactured by Certainium, hardly a company known for snake oil.
Ive got some 50 lbs of it, and the box is marked Utility Rod, all position, all polarity AC-DC..
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MG 500 - AC or DC either polarity Commonly used on applications requiring short, intermittent and spot welds because of the outstanding re s t a rting characteristics. Tensile Strength Up to 80,000 psi (56 kg/mm2) Yield Strength Up to 68,000 psi (47 kg/mm2) Elongation % Approx. 24 Diameter Amperage 5 lb (2.3 kg) 10 lb (4.5 kg) 3/ 32" 35- 80 MGI093425842232 MGI093425842249 1/ 8" 65- 125 MGI093425842331 MGI093425842348 5/ 32" 90- 160 MGI093425842430 MGI093425842447 Pro c e d u res ? Remove as much foreign material as practical from the weld area. DC reverse polarity (electrode +) produces deep penetration; DC straight polarity (electrode -) will have limited penetration and a flatter bead. AC prevents arc blow. A medium arc length should be maintained with either stringer or weave beads. Slag is easily removed with a light chipping hammer.
Ive used this stuff and the slag is like a gray glass that simply pops off by itself most of the time. Rather interesting rod.
Gunner
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide" - James Burnham
Reply to
Gunner
Years ago I was getting ready to weld some light weight stuff and realized I was out of rod. Too late for a regular welding supply house, so I went to Sears and bought some mild steel self starting rod. It really did start very easy and according to the box it was AC or DC. Was using a Dayton buzz box, never tried it on DC. But I kept the part number 9 20640. Worked very well. It was not A.W.S. color coded. Had one white spot on the rod.
Al
Reply to
Big Al
"Steve B" wrote: What do I win? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I could send you my dunce cap. My head has gotten to big for it.
Reply to
Leo Lichtman
I wear size 7 5/8 to 7 3/4 Comeaux welding caps. I don't know if I have a big brain or a thick skull. The tests were inconclusive.
Steve
Reply to
Steve B
Mebbe rap yer head with a ball pein hammer, and listen with a mechanic's stethoscope--listen for reverberations. :)
Reply to
Proctologically Violated©®
Indeed, the stuff I bought from HD was 6011. Wild indeed. These welds are bad, even for me, and believe me, I push the envelope. :( Cellulose?? Means it's hygroscopic? Mebbe I should put'em in the oven for a while?
Reply to
Proctologically Violated©®
"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote
I haven't burned a lot of 6011 correctly. I'll explain in a second.
I use wirefeed, 6010, and 7018 for all my welding because it is what I learned on, and what I know how to get done what I want to get done.
When I was a steel erection contractor, my niche was repair work for 275 apartment projects in Las Vegas. Lots of gate and railing repairs. For that, I used EXCLUSIVELY 3/32" 6011 with the stinger negative. I could butt weld two pieces of .065: square tubing together with it. I learned how to do it on my Miller Thunderbolt (an AWESOME little welder) in my garage, and in the field, I first used a Lincoln WeldanPower 225, then a smaller Lincoln with a 16 hp Briggs on a roll around cart. Guys used to tell me to use the 6011 1/8" on heavy stuff, but I liked the 6010 or 7018 much better. If it's thick stuff, you can't beat the strength and classy look of a good LH 7018 weld.
IIRC, though, I got all my rods at the welding supply, and all were Lincoln, and a few Hobart.
Steve
Reply to
Steve B
The moisture is part of how a cellulosic works - and it is getting hydrogen from the cellulose - that is the point. That is why the rod has a fierce arc. Don't dry the rod.
6010 and 6011 come in tins *to keep the moisture *in**!
If you want a soft arc try another type of rod.
Richard Smith
Reply to
Richard Smith
While storage in a heated oven is essential for Lo Hi rods (Although a lot of welders don't do it, unless forced to), heating cellulose electrodes {XX10 & XX11, for example} is not only not required, but counter productive. IIRC, heating cellulose rods causes tiny porosity to be spread evenly throughout the weld. Cellulose rods have always been meant to be used @ ambient humidity, and that will always be much higher than in a heated oven. LH means Lo Hi that means Low hydrogen. (XX18 for example) Moisture or water is H2O, which are 2 atoms of hydrogen & one atom of oxygen per molecule of water. Here the idea is to exclude as much hydrogen as possible.
Hope this sheds a little light on welding w/ cellulose & Lo Hi electrodes, John
BTW; 5P or any 7010 rod always creates a huge amount of sparks. If you start on a Monday w/ a new Levi shirt by Friday it will be so full of tiny holes that the sleeves will be just about ready to fall off, even if run w/ DC. Leathers pay off.
Reply to
john
Storage, Lo-Hi (what we in Britain call "basics" because they are formed from chemically base limestone ingredients) and keeping the rods dry...
I asked an experienced welding engineer what he reckons the reality is on this. He says that welding shops with the wind blowing through open ends have high humidity and you mustn't let the rods hang around - an hour or so and the hydrogen level is going up. He says for real they are hygroscopic and can peak out in hydrogen level around that of a rutile (6013 type) rod. But he says that storing them in a house in any situation where you are happy to keep good clothes is fine - there isn't enough moisture to pick up.
He says that the only known instances of hydrogen cracking with damp "Lo-Hi" rods and "mild steel" is thick sections around 50mm / 2inches and where the steel is from some poorer country and all the compositions are at the maximum allowed under the analysis spec - carbon right against the top of the allowable range, etc.
Well, that's what I am told the reality is. Read this advisedly.
Richard Smith
Reply to
Richard Smith
Dear Richard Interesting, really interesting to me. I am sure that he is correct. However here in the US where much welding is performed to AWS D1.1 pre- qualified (or supposedly pre-qualified) procedures, the electrode manufactures directions for electrode usage are included in the pre- qualified procedure. And that includes for all Lo Hi rods (so far as I know) to be stored after opening in a 150F oven, & is something I & most reasonably conscientious inspectors insist on. (If only to cover our collective asses) One thing that is certainly verboten is using rod that has been rattling around in the back pick up truck for months exposed to the morning dew (even here in 'sunny' California).
Also pre-heat plays a huge part in what your engineer friend said. Enough pre-heat, I suspect just about any steel could be welded to any steel w/ any electrode. But the pre heat might be 1000F. At some point it becomes impossible to attain a high enough pre-heat. (Plus PH is very expensive in terms of time) The pre-heat chart in D1.1 (I'm retired & can't remember it's alpha numeric name ever though it's often referenced) allows much less PH w/ LH rods.
Having said all that; For 15 yrs or so, I've questioned the amount of oven heat needed for LH rods, when high impact flux core wires such as Lincoln 232 are stored in a supposedly sealed plastic bag covered by a cardboard box. Which I don't believe is totally impervious to moisture. And I certainly don't believe that rolled seam in the wire is impervious to moisture.
What it boils down to is how much yield strength ultimate strength, elongation, & many joules impact are required vs. how high of: amps, volts, electrode diameter, & how low of a pre-heat, & how small of a weld angle will allow the requirements to be met. Certainly the AWS pre-qualified procedures don't come close to meeting this optimum combination, & is why it pays for any welding concern who does any volume of welding to qualify their most used procedures, rather that use pre-qualified procedures.
Boy, I didn't start out to say all that! John
Reply to
john

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