Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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Will the Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC InverterPro-Wave power the
Ready Welder mig spool gun w/o any problems?

I'd love own Miller's Dynasty line... but my checkbook won't allow it!
:(

I'm trying to figure out how I can get a quality Tig + Stick + Mig setup....

Welding on my backhoe is the heaviest welding that I get in to.... and  
generally, I run my Lincoln 225 AC buzz box in the 75 to 140 range for  
most of the welding that I do.  I've been wanting to tinker w/ Tig & Mig
for quite some time....  and if the TA 185 will work in conjunction w/  
the Ready Welder... I just may be where I want to be!

Ernie... I know that you have suggested the Maxstar 140 and/or 150 to me  
  in the past... and I do think of that possibility.  But, for some  
unexplainable reason ( IOW's... I don't know why I do some of the things  
that I do! :) ) , I'd still like to be able to do TIG Aluminum welding.

I don't intend to do any mass production jobs.... so I don't think I  
will need water cooled torches... or Hi-amp machines.  Any AL that I'd  
weld would most likely be under 1/4".

If I can buy the TA Pro Wave for $1750 + a Ready Welder for $430 + two  
tanks of gas... for another $ 300 + or - , then I'm looking at <$2,500.

Could someone please double check my figures?  I haven't figured in any
other consumables.... what would be a good figure to use in getting  
started?   I have plenty of AC stick rod.... and some AC/DC.

Oh yeah.... what about the 11000 CS series of the Ready Welder guns that  
are coming out?  Anyone seen the prices of these?


Thanks folks!

Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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Yes, no problem.
As far as the welder is concerned, it thinks it is stick welding.


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It is a good package.


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Then it should work fine.


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Sounds about right

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According to their website the new CS gun only works off of batteries
and CV (MIG) power sources, so it won't work off of a CC (Stick) power
source.

Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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setup....

Except for the stick welding mode.  If he hasn't
bought one yet, he needs to know about this
pitfall. Next to unusable in stick mode. Maybe
the ready welder wouldn't be affected in the same
way, who knows. Just don't sell the Lincoln 225
stick welder yet until you see if you like stick mode
on the 185 (for regular stick welding).




Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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One of my former students brought in his Prowave 185TSW and we had no
trouble stick welding with it.
I wonder why you had such trouble.
It is possible your machine was faulty.

Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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the
it!
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and
for
Mig
w/
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Can you tell me more about this Ernie?
What was he welding, what rod, and how
clean was his workpiece ?  Book says it
needs like 100 Ohms or so before it will
release the low voltage lock down mode.
Problem I have is, you got to really scratch
down to get it going, and you hand up sticking
in doing so, so you pull away, and it starts all
over again. I dunno, I'll play with it yet again.
And starting 7018? ge-sus, that rods hard
enough on its own, much let alone this deal.
Question, have you, yourself tried to run
some rod with this thing?  11, 13, maybe 18?
say 1/8" in the 100 Amp range?  Try it.




Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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I ran 1/8" 7018.
Starting was a bit tricky but the welding was fine.
6011 also ran fine.

I was running DCEP on both, at around 120 amps.

Mind you I teach this stuff for a living so I get more practice than
most.

Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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power
allow
Mig
to....
range
Tig &
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conjunction

Thanks, appreciate that.  BTW, whats the status of the
classes? - I didn't make this term, but when does next
term start etc, and can I join whats left of this etc?
(I'm right down the street from you in Maple Valley)






Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?


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Spring quarter ends June 18th.
Summer starts up on June 28th.

Sign up for WFT 297, 4 credits, section 2.
Monday and Wednesday evenings, 5:30 - 9:30 pm.

Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?
I'll pipe up in favor of the TA185.

I took advantage of Ernie's offer for free rod and picked up
100 lbs. of 3/32" 8018 and 50 lb. of 1/8" 6010.

I ran a rod of the 8018 on a piece of 1/4" bar. The steel was
reasonably clean. I used 80A DCEP and I was able to run some
nice beads. Mind you I am not much of a stick weldor, but wanted
practice for the occasional heavier section.

I was pretty frustrated at first and thought my machine was busted.
Then I realized the foot pedal needed to be pressed to weld.
I grabbed a handy fire brick and pegged the pedal. Then everything
worked fine. I attribute any difficulty starting (and especially
restarting) this rod to my lack of experience with SMAW and the fact
that I didn't bake the rod first (the container had a small tear).

Just another data point...

Jeff Dantzler

Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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Ernie, you got any more of that free rod? - I need a little.



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WTF?  SMAW isn't susposed to involve "foot pedals".
However, like I posted when I first got my TS 185,
I did do just this (out of fustration), and it did work
quite well actually - set the TA 185 to "TIG" mode,
and press the foot pedal to stick weld. Weird huh ?
So thats a tough trade off - just string out the standard
cables for the Thunderbolt and SMAW away, or cable
out the TA 185, and its foot pedal, and hope the pedal
doesn't land in a mud puddle, or any other rough stuff
that SMAW areas are known for.  I can TIG in the
garage with the door closed, but SMAW is usually
an outdoor activity.


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How does that work since you need to cycle the pedal
to trigger the HF arc (for TIG mode), right ??


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On 18 rod, look around on Google for how to dry it.  Its a little
more involved than just cooking her at 300 degrees.  And if you
are in Seattle, even more important with the moisture. But anyways...

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Humm, yeah....  You had a lot stacked against you.
To verify, you were doing SMAW, but had the
TA 185 in "TIG Mode", right ? (the foot pedal thing.)



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Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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I had the machine in stick mode, DCEP @ 80 amps with
about 30 amps of "hot start". It is not uncommon for
stick/tig machines to allow use of the foot pedal when
in stick mode. I know Miller 180's will allow the pedal
to be used.

I gather that if I unplugged the remote, I would not need
to bother with the pedal for SMAW. I was just lazy and left
it plugged in since I currently use the machine for TIG only.
I was pretty surprised not to get an arc until I thought to
rest a brick on the pedal to "turn it on".

BTW, I saw Lincoln's drying procedure for 8018 rod and it
involves going up to a pretty high temp. I need to find a pal
with a kiln...

Jeff Dantzler

Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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Ok,now I'm really confused.  Are you saying that the
"foot pedal" works in stick mode on the T/A 185TSW?
Why/how would that be ? I don't remember being able
to do that, and I'm abouts to try that in like 5 minutes.


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Strange. Ok, I'll verify with Mr Purple here in about 5 min.


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Yup - thats why I mentioned it.

Be back in a bit.


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Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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About 4000 lbs of it.
When can I expect your flatbed truck?

I have about 1000 lbs of the good stuff.
8018 and 9018 in 3/32" and 5/32".

The rest is HUGE 3/16" 6010, and 7010, and 7/32" 7014.

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You ROCK dude.  You got a E-mail
addy so I can hook up with you ?


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Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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ernie@stagesmith.com

Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?
wrote:
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*Most* TIG welders will run the full output set on the dial for stick
welding when the pedal is *removed* from the machine. So instead
of putting a brick on it, you may be able to just unplug it.

OTOH, try *using* the pedal while stick welding, same as you would
while TIG welding. You may find that the extra degree of current
control will make welding easier (great for filling that hole you burned
in the work).  

Gary

Re: Thermal Arc? PRO-WAVE? 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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hehe, its not the "control" we're after, we're after
being able to easily start the arc with these low
voltage trip circuits in these new inverters. But,
I do got to admidt, putting the TA 185 in TIG
mode with the stinger on it *is* very cool!  Get
that HF starting, and blap!, got 18 rod running
like no ones business *and* got that foot pedal
pumping action going. Just feels wrong. hehe :)




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Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?

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Mig

The Hobart Stickmate is a Miller Thunderbolt, and the Thunnderbolt
is a nice machine for smoothness.  Just keep the book handy, every
now and then you have to tighten the armature slide bolts, because
over time the crank will get a tad bit loose, and uncrank (lower) the
current as you weld. Really messed with my head there for a while
since I weld in the back yard, and the welder is clean around in the
garage with long welding cables. But I really do love that welder.
So why you getting rid of the Lincoln 225? - never ran one, but
ever since I got the Thunderbolt/Stick Mate, no reason to try one.


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Good, because as a TIG welder, you will really like this machine.
Well built, nice accessory's, small, and I just love it.


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Doesn't appear to be faulty, but I dunno.  Too used to the
Thunderbolt I guess.  I dunno, when I'm in the "zone", I just
like to scratch down and weld, and not have to be distracted
with that whole startup thing, real pain. (guess I'm spoiled)


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Again. you will love the TA 185, I like it more (for TIG) everyday.
I'm new to TIG, but I'm on my way.  On my 3rd tank of gas so far.
Haveing it provide the same joy as I get with my Thunderbolt (A/C)
would be absolute heaven, but I do know thats asking a lot, and
maybe a bit unrealistic.  For stick, I'm more of a traditional A/C
guy, and never liked DC stick welding all that much, and never
really had the need for DC stick welding, so if the TA 185 ever
did have no startup problems, At best, it would just be a good
DC stick welder.  However, I did experiment with the A/C
stick mode, and it was just "different". (Squarewave A/C instead
of pure sinewave of the Thunderbolt/StickMate).


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Well, I too have been looking at the Ready welder for exactally
this same reason, thus why following this thread so much.  I really
do want/need to get a MIG setup, and the choice is either that
Lincoln SP-135 series thing on 110 volts with what, 2% duty cycle ?
(yuk), so roughly the *same* money, basically unlimited juice, and
no new boxes to stack up, and find room for.  And I think Ernie
thinks these things are Ok, so I'm seriously looking at this this.

One "questionable" thing about the ReadyWelders....
They say good for CC (Constant Current) machine,
*or* CV (Constant Voltage).  So how can this be ?
All stick welders are CC, and MIG definetly needs
to be CV, so this leaves me wondering about this,
and if the ReadyWelder can really perform like a
"true" MIG welder (with CV). So, I'm still researching.

Being an electronics type, I bought a few hundred TO-3
power transistors, emitter resistors and such, and I'm
thinking about making a CV attachment for the Thunderbolt.
(probably gonna be just a linier, LM723 type design)


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That it is, isn't it ?  I'm amazed with the talent in here,
and the experience levels and such.  These people in
here arn't just backyard welders - they're actually
really knowledgable about the mechanics, and science
behind welding, metallurgy, chemistry and the like.


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Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?
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MIG uses CV so that if the operator varies stick out while moving the
gun (almost unavoidable), the arc voltage remains the same.  Same arc
voltage means same heat when you move the gun around (welding
heat is a function of voltage times current), so you get consistent welds.

Now with a CC supply, arc voltage varies with stick out, and so the
heat varies as you move the gun. Welders use this to advantage when
stick welding, ie varying the arc length varies the heat in the weld. But
for wire feed machines this is not good, welding occurs too fast for the
operator to dynamically compensate. The result is crappy inconsistent
welds.

Wire feeders designed to work off CC sources have a voltage sensing
circuit that monitors arc voltage. If arc voltage changes due to varying
stick out, the feeder dynamically compensates by varying wire feed speed
until the previously set  arc voltage is restored. This keeps welding heat
constant as you move the gun, so you get good consistent welds, same
as if you were using a CV source.

This speed compensation works pretty well in most cases. There are
situations where it can cause problems, but for the majority of welding
situations where you're running off a CC source, it is better to have it
than not.

Gary

Re: Thermal Arc® PRO-WAVE® 185TSW AC/DC Plus a Ready Welder 10250 ?
CV welders are used with constant rate wire feeders. CV welder's
Volt/Amp curve is designed  so MIG welding arc length is held constant
as welder changes his stickout or gun to work distance. The CV flat
volts slope or curve to amps means small voltage changes results in
big amp changes. As arc is shortened the CV voltage decreases a little
and the amps increases a lot burning off wire faster restoring arc
length. When arc is shortened the CV voltage increases a little and
the amps decreases a lot so wire is burned off slower restoring arc
length. This is called self regulation. This is the simple explanation
of what is happening when wire feed welding. Short circuit transfer is
a lot more complicated as wire shorts to work stopping arc then arc
reingition happens in cycle 20 to 250 times a second both voltage and
amps are constantly changing during the short circuit cycle.

A CC welder are commonly used for SMAW (stick) welding and GTAW (TIG)
welding. CC welder has steep voltage curve to amps makes it easier to
start arc and maintain arc while changing arc length. When arc length
is increased the voltage increases a lot to help maintain the arc and
the current decreases a little. The longer arc spreads heat over wider
area so puddle cools. When arc length is decreased the voltage droops
lower and current goes up a little. The shorter arc concentrates heat
into smaller puddle.

Wire feeders designed for CC welders  are voltage tracking increasing
feed rate as voltage increases and decreasing feed rate as voltage
decreases. This helps maintain constant arc length as wire stickout
changes. This type of feeder is often powered by welding current or
have a welding current sensing wire. They are easier to use when in
spray transfer mode. I think this is because voltage and amp changes
during short circuit cycle make it hard for the feeder to respond
properly.

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