Dave Brown for AMA President

Hi Abel

The museum is not accredited. This may one day, become a major issue, since it is one measure of the not-for-profit tax status the AMA enjoys.

Here is the IRS link for non profit 501 organizations: go educate yourself on what you don't know:

Publication 557 calls for publications (such as magazines), over, and over again to support 501 (c) 3 status.

he's got my vote

Thanks for the info Paul.......I see they do most of the work.

Mike

The AMA's status is that of an educational 501 (c) 3 and not a science organization. There is no litmus test, as you point out. However, if you look at the sorts of things that are excepted as supporting information, it is obvious that the AMA's status is borderline. Anything that can be done must be done to support the continued status as a 501 (c) 3, unless, or course the AMA is willing to lose it's status.

You may remember the "We fly Labs" articles of many years ago, or be familiar with the "build and take" programs of today. If you dig further than doc 557, you will find that, in fact, although not in language, the newsletter and the magazine are "required" under the IRS regs. The deeper you dig, the more you realize not publishing a mag is not a realistic option.

Why did you use the term "opponent"? Is that why you are so adversarial towards everyone? You see everyone as an opponent?

So, you were a member YEARS ago and you now know everything about it. You didn't even know that they have a flying site assistance program that has been in existence for YEARS.

Now, tell that to CO.

Good points JR. They all support my campaigning, for the past 3 years, for AMA to be much more involved in the EDUCATION of the public via public media, direct contact with officials from local to national, about the worth of model aviation as a wholesome and educational recreation from the workroom to the great outdoors. AMA can well provide the current insurance liability at token cost all within the dues structure. All the other items that AMA does such as individual accident/medical could be additional costs.

However if Dave Brown gets reelected, then that will definitely be the end of any program to keep AMA as a tax-exempt organization. In the last election, DB received carte-blanche to do his own thing and reelection now would be the icing-on-the-cake for him.

Perhaps, as you allude to, there is a reason that certain persons would very much like for AMA to lose it's exempt status. For example, then AMA could become simply an Insurance company with already selected individuals in control of both the money and the company. They already have a CAPTIVE audience. You think the current insurance is expensive? Just wait until it goes truly commercial !!!

If the member dues must support the mag then make it a member-oriented periodical with nearly no advertising. If the Industry wants that 160,000 +/- captive audience, then let the industry pay for the mag in whole.

DB will NOT ever do that. Just maybe -- maybe -- a member designated CHANGE could open some eyes. It is the only chance available.

HC

Same song, different verse. Ain't no better. Ain't no worse. You only think UMA is great because it's new. If they prove viable, they will run into EXACTLY the same issues AMA has regarding insurance. Once they get dinged for a few multi-million-dollar settlements, they'll start imposing more restrictive rules.

We're talking about Federal agencies here. Squeak too much, and they'll replace the wheels with heavy, expensive government-issue ones, or unhitch the cart altogether... In other words, they'll regulate it, or ban it outright.

I'm all for proactive, if there's something to be proactive about.

Is the current Rutan a product of the AMA?

This is what I've said right along. Problem is, it's a HARD sell. Things are profitable as they are, and profits are on the rise as the hobby grows. What good reason could you possibly give them to change their ways?

Okay, let's take it one step further. Where do we find that leadership? We have enough trouble finding people to appoint, let alone people who really can and want to lead.

Find a viable flying site in that east-coast megalopolis, let alone land that isn't horrendously overpriced. I firmly believe we must have a headquarters that is a world-class showcase for what we do. Otherwise, what's the point?

Keeping in close touch is no longer a problem with modern communications and travel.

Again, find me affordable land to build a world-class flying site in or around that whole DC area. Then field all the complaints from the AMA members who are now even FURTHER from headquarters, and have even LESS reason to visit. In Muncie, 90% of the membership is less than a day's drive.

It's amazing how some people can see conspiracy and nefarious intentions in ANYTHING.

Mat,

Why does the AMA have to have only one world-class flying site at the same location as the headquarters? They would be much more visible with 10 world-class flying sites! I have been to flying sites in many different countries. Many of the local sites in the US are world-class in their own right.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:37:24 -0500, Phil wrote:

Phil- Take a look at the subthread a few lines down, and Brown's objectives presented during an AMA management love-in shortly after he took office, outlined in good MBO form. Keep in mind that he set them himself, with no modulation by a boss such as you or I would have when we set our job objectives. Look at the objectives that were accomplished - all involving primarily the effort of getting out the checkbook and spending, and at that spending almost exclusively on infrastructure rather than directing any resources or effort toward the stated mission of the organization. Mission related objectives were uniformly not accomplished, and for some there is no evidence of even the most rudimentary plan to accomplish them, much less any progress toward meeting them. What you observed above is the expected outcome - he has spent three terms building the empire, getting ready to get ready. Even with with an objective (probably met) to build the NAV of the organization that seems out of place for a non-profit, whatever asset growth was accomplished didn't keep up with the spending, else we wouldn't be saddled with a $4M obligtion for a loan to cover operating expenses. I recall soon after this funding was procured the EVP proudly pointing out in his column that AMA was in a good cash position. I would be in a fine cash position too if I had just obtained a loan for $4 million, as I expect most of us would. It's past time we had some real leadership in AMA - but then you knew that.

Abel

I understand that the AMA is an educational 501, I used the science example, shouldn't have. But again, you don't have to publish a book to qualify as educational, having a flight training program is an example. I too like some others think the AMA has gotten borderline as a 501 organization, but that's not my beef.

Back to my point about the Dave Brown and the Muncie bureaucracy,

Take a look at the 2003 financial statement, roughly $2.5Million of income from members ($7.5Million) such as you and I is spent on AMA salaries and benefits. That's around $20 of your $58. Roughly $1.2Million is comes from a collection of other categories directly related to the cost of the equipment and staff at Muncie (staff insurance, travel, equipment maintenance, grounds maintenance, utilities....). That's around $10 of your $58. That's roughly $30 of your $58, and we haven't started talking about costs of improvements, add to that the moneys lost if the Muncie Assets were invested instead of sitting there, and you come up with a big chunk of you membership dues. I won't argue you need some professional staff, offices and equipment, it just the size just keeps getting bigger and more encroaching with no leveling off of the trend.

Phil

J_R wrote:

Paul, The site assistance program is AMA member volunteers helping AMA members, not much meat so to speak. It's a start, but not what we really need.

Phil

Paul Mc> Mike,

Just calling them as I see them. I've always figured that was what someone is who behaves like yourself. You know, if the shoe fits........... That's also why you're a LIFER!

No! I don't think they're great because they're new. Don't try to put words in my mouth. You might get bit! I said UMA simply because you asked:

"There are, but who else provides insurance that: A) involves as little paperwork as AMA insurance B) is as easily verified as AMA insurance C) is as inexpensive as AMA insurance D) is as clear and comprehensive regarding R/C as AMA insurance"

And I answered. But it would appear you don't like the answer so you're trying other tactics. Been watching Paul again?

OK! So we just give up? Better to have tried and lost than never to have tried at all! Or does that sound like too much work for everyone?

National Recognition? Respect of the public? Chance of a flying site on every chunk of open federal land? Not saying we'll get it but, it will be more than we have now. Cooperation of state, county and local governments?

If you mean was he ever a member? Yes! Is he one now? Don't know. Would be interesting to find out and if it was vested on him as an honorarium or not?

I see! So you want to simply hang it up and go home? Cry to Mommy like some others here do? Life is hard too! Think maybe the quiters should take it all the way and quit life as well?

MORE PROFITS! You think the hobby is growing? Maybe but not much. Not with any long lasting growth. That's why the AMA membership numbers are moving so slowly. The AMA has not grown anywhere near like other recreational activities. So either the hobby itself isn't growing or the AMA has some serious problems or both. And the hobby may be selling a lot of stuff. But could much of it be to people that try it for a year or two (or a weekend) and quit?

Fact! If the hobby is really growing with real enthusiasts, then the ranks of the AMA and UMA should be growing too. Maybe not as fast as other rec activities but certainly a lot more than they have this past half dozen or so years. The AMA should be well above 200,000 with their sights set on

300,000. But they can't hack it. The situation has gone beyond the capabilities of the amatures running the show.

Ask yourself this. What is the AMA? I mean the basic type of organization. Now go find someone skilled in running such an organization and make them an offer!

There is over 6000 acres of "OPEN" (not used for anything in particular) government land within 20 miles south of DC. There's a heck of a lot of open land both private and public on the Maryland side. But like you said, horrendously over priced. So we have a choice. Find a way to afford it, like a club of 50 or even 100 could do that. Or abandon the metropolitan areas and the potential members there.

One must first know how to communicate!

And why go to Muncie? Ever been there? Not my idea of the midwestern dream.

But, since when was the main purpose of the headquarters to sponsor, oversee, guard or in some way be physically attached to any flying site? Maybe the first thing for everyone to do is decide what the main purpose of the AMA is? Hmmm! Wasn't there a thread about that somewhere? Wonder who started that? They should have left the HQ in Reston where it can work face to face with the government. Like it should. And the put the damn national flying site anywhere they damn well please. Might have actually been able to build more than one that way? Imagine?

I'm not seeing conspiracy. I have yet to see anything smart enough to come up with a conspiracy!

On that Paul, I agree with you. But the sad thing is, most of those flying sites do not belong to the modelers who use them. So there is always the chance that one fine flying day they find the gate closed. In some places it happens every couple of years and that simply should not be. So what is big daddy doing about it?

I agree with you Horrace but, I don't ever see any of this happening. Simply because you can't get enough of the membership to remain focused long enough to get the job done. They'll start to make change a thousand times before anything remotely significant gets started. Let alone finished. It's going to take someone with vision, honesty, balls and like you said, carte-blanche. With a similar group for DV's. I have yet to see enough of that step forward.