First Plane Needed....Please make suggestions

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You might want to consider a RTF out-of-the box thing from Ripmax or Hobby Zone/Parkzone for about $200 that inlcudes tranmitter etc.You just charge the battery and go. Something like an Aerobird Commander would be good - and if you're feeling brave, try a Strkyer. They are both very durable (with the aid of expoxy & packing tape), okay to learn on, and you can fly them in a nearby park. Though the Strkyer is quite a handful at first, it's great fun and there's plenty of scope to add mods.
Have a look at:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_148/tt.htm
Ken.

Come on be a real man and get a real plane. Dont waste your money on the junky electric crap. Buy you a real trainer plane and learn to fly the right way. Look at this link this is a very good model to start out with and learn on. But get help with it are any plane you buy http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMU53 **&P=0

George Thomas wrote:
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Chris, please know that there are some of us who were flying glow in the '50s who feel that electric is super.

John Miller wrote:
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There are some of us who have flown both more recently, and reckon that 'trainer' is a term that is probably illegal under the trade descriptions act for most ARTF's sold as such powered by 40 engines.
Whereas a slow stik IS a trainer.
Nothing to stop you going glo later...or is it that the 'nitro' boys have a nagging suspicion that once someone starts on an electric, they simply won't bother to ever touch a slimy noisy tempremental 2 stroke that actually offers nothing in terms of performance against a modern electric setup, and rapidly not a lot in cost terms either..at all?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
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Yes, I think that whole thing is an industry plot to be sure everyone spends money buying a high-wing Cessna look-alike. (My R/C trainer was a Stick, and with control throws moderated, it worked just fine in that role.)
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Now that you mention it, I'm sure that's a possibility. I've come to realize that the main reason I keep the glow stuff is nostalgia, and more and more, nostalgia ain't what it used to be...

Electric cannot match the performance of IC on anywhere near a level cost playing field. You would have to factor in a lot of fuel to get the costs close.
For example, what would the equivalent electric cost to equal the power of a YS 1.10 FZ? What would the setup cost be if you wanted to have three 10 minute flights with a 5 minute break between them?
Electrics are making advances leaps and bounds but are still better at the lower end of the power spectrum. I just ordered an AXI 2820/10 brushless motor and Phoenix 45A controller that will be almost equivalent to an FP-40 in useable power (10X6 at about 9500 RPMs). It cost $200. Now I will need a couple of $150.00 batteries and a good charger. I will be into it for over $500. I am not complaining as I want to go to electrics for the convenience. I just don't delude myself that it will be as economical.

| Electric cannot match the performance of IC on anywhere near a level | cost playing field. You would have to factor in a lot of fuel to | get the costs close.
They certainly can, but just on the smaller end of the spectrum.
Think of a speed 400 motor vs. a Norvell 0.061 ... the power is comparable, and the prices are too, though the Norvell will have a edge if you require three battery packs.
| For example, what would the equivalent electric cost to equal the | power of a YS 1.10 FZ? What would the setup cost be if you wanted | to have three 10 minute flights with a 5 minute break between them?
A YS 1.10 FZ is ... big. Glow is a lot cheaper there.
With a small 180 sized gear motor and LiPo batteries, you can have a plane that will fly 30 minutes -- so there goes your 3 10 minute flights with 5 minute breaks criteria right there, though the breaks are optional :)
You can get a speed 180 motor, gear box, esc and LiPo battery for approximately the cost of an equivilent glow motor, fuel tank and servo to control the throttle.
Electric is cost effective for small models. For larger models, the battery costs skyrocket ...

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receiver with a $9 xtal, for a grand total of $121. I doubt that you can put together a throttled glow system (engine + radio flight pack) for much less than that, at any size.
And my little IPS planes fly outside just fine, thank you. They won't win any races, and probably not any aerobatics contests, either, but I have fun with 'em anyway.

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.....and they're probably a lot better for a beginner than anything else, too. Which is, after all, what the thread is about.

Mark Miller wrote:
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I run IPS with 2 HS55 9 gram servos, or three GWS pico servos at 5Gm. Cost UK is about £12 per servo. I use JETI REX 4 receivers at about 9gm ..
Using 3s LIPO pack (3x Kokam 350) I get a half hour of flying, and with appropriate gearing, up to 30mph flying speed on 30-40" planes. Its about a cox 020 or an old .5cc diesel type performance.
I've crammed up to .09 equivalent electric setups into 30" planes as well. Very chaap and very exciting.

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ohh I haven't had the courage to put 3 cells on my IPS motors - they get pretty hot with 2. I'm going to guess that you're using smaller props than I am - what prop are you using?

Mark Miller wrote:
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see www.shaman.co.uk/models/cans

Fly them when there is a 10-15 MPH breeze and run to catch up with them. Sure, they fly outside just fine, in dead calm weather. Very few days like that here.
And a 180 is at the estreme end just as an .049 is at the extreme end of glow COMPARED TO THE RANGE AVAILABLE. Sure, you can get .010 if you want it. Same limitations as the tiny electrics you speak of.

Paul McIntosh wrote:
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You would be surprised actually...micro racers and aerobats that will handle moderate wind and do 30-40mph are not that hard.
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If you pick and choose your motors and run them sensibly, they can be very inexpensive indeed. A geared 600 is about as good as a .19 or .25 in a not-too-fast model. They are $10 motors.
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You noticed ;)
Motors are getting cheaper all the time. But a decent brushed motor is not THAT expesnive. The Astro Cobalt 40 - more or less a 40 equivalent - is a mere $129. That will turn a 10x6 at 12000 RPM
http://www.astroflight.com/e/env/0001eGB40imIIpMS9I6k7z6/store/store-Cobalt.html?link=/store/store-type-tem.html&item=products:af-640
A 20 cell nickel pack for that is about $100
a 6s2p pack of LIPOS to power it might be around $200..or maybe only $120 using yor cells.
A controller from astro is $75.
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But they do not offer the same performance level. They can ONLY power slower models.
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http://www.astroflight.com/e/env/0001eGB40imIIpMS9I6k7z6/store/store-Cobalt.html?link=/store/store-type-tem.html&item=products:af-640
You have just made my point again. Being able to swing a 10X6 at that speed is easy for $75 glow motors. Actually, many do a lot better. The electric cost was $300 for one flight and didn't include the cost of a charger. The whole system also weighs a lot more.
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Paul McIntosh wrote:
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That is simply not so. A well tuned speed 600 will do 1/5 bhp and do it at a shaft speed of 25k plus
Thats a .19 in my book.
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Well paul I dunno.
I was up at the field last week and this old boy comes up with some tatyty piece of Vmar siomethingorother and an OS46, and it must weigh all of 5lb for a 60" span estimated.
He spent 20 minutes putting it together, and flew it for about 5, because the engine started misfiring, and he complained it was too fast.
I've got a 60" span model that is 2lb lighter, slower, nicer, and flies on £60 of battery and a £5 motor. And does> 30 minutes on one charge of it.
And costs me bugger all in fuel. That battery also powers my 60mph 36" piccolo and a 50mph picojet, all of which have £5 motors in em. and maybe £20 speed controllers.
I admit that getting > 1KW gets expensive, but the actual question is, wheher you need > 1Kw to get a decent pattern plane to fly. I think gassers are simply too heavy - with electrics they don't need to be, and they fly better as a result.
I've not yet stepped up beyond the sort of half horsepower level yet, although I probably will be doing something in that class soon.
I expect to pay no more than $100 for the LIPO set that will power at LEAST THREE models in that class.
Do you unbolt your big Glo engines at the field and field swap them between models?
I thought not. Ive got three LIPO packs so far - just three...and they are split between 9 models that are currently flying, or in repairs, or almost built.
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...and since when was a TVR a good car for a learner? You might want to remind yourself of the title of this thread.

Since when is a Corsa a good car, period! ;^)

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Never said it was - that's why learners drive them.