hurricane / metal building / log splitter

Some of you may be familiar with Magic Hammer Forge here in Southern Louisiana. We took quite a hit from a giant oak tree that was blown
down by Katrina. The building was pretty much destroyed. You can see pictures here; http://www.noahmudge.com/katrina . I am looking for a tutorial on metal building construction. I have checked out several commercial companies that manufacture metal buildings, but they are very expensive. Especially since I need a custom size, 26' x 36'. I am considering building my own. I am also looking to borrow a hydraulic log splitter for a couple months. I have a LOT of oak firewood to split.
dave mudge snipped-for-privacy@magichammer.net www.magichammer.net 895.735.0049 home 985.516.0680 cell 985.735.7236 fax
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When we moved to Maine two years ago we had to put up a barn (1500 sq. ft.). There was no way we had time to do it, hired it done (which may make a difference in costs).
We started with the assumption that a metal building would be cheaper, but not look as nice. We got quoted $100,000 (!) for a metal building, couldn't find anyone else even interested in quoting. Timber framing would have been cheaper, running $70-80k. What we ended up with was a guy whose crews build garages normally, he built us a stick framed (2x6) barn, reinforced loft for hay, concrete floor. It ran $35k for the building (not counting electrical). We're pretty happy with it.
While we're talking wind, I was building a play house for my daughter this summer and decided I should do the roof right. When I went into the lumber yard asking for roof clips, they didn't have any idea what I was talking about. I explained, and they said "oh, just toe nail the rafters down". It is really nice being out of the Colorado wind belt.
Steve
snipped-for-privacy@magichammer.net wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@magichammer.net wrote:

I found that I could get a metal building shell (which needed insulating, etc) for about the same money that I could get a structural insulated panel shell (which is very well insulated). I also looked into the "morton buildings" wood-frame/steel-skin, but again, not truly competitive. This has probably all gotten worse with the dramatic rise in steel prices over the last few years.
SIP can be very quickly put up yourself. With a crew consisting of one person who had worked with SIPs, a couple of people with carpentry experience, and 5 or so willing to help but no experience, the walls for my 24x48 shop went up in 2 days. An experienced crew or lifting equipment probably could have that down to one day. I went with a normal truss roof (with high heels for more insulation, but I'm in cold country). I also went two story, and would advise against that, as it has slowed down finishing the building considerably - all the fussing about with staging, etc...(2nd floor walls took 3 days, but getting windows, siding, etc in, with the help that was willing to come for the "raising" not so willing to help with boring details...or up in the air).
You might see if you gan get a bunch of oak beams made from parts of your trees. You'll still have plenty of firewood.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

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Do you mind saying how much your building cost? It sounds exactly like what I'd want.
Eide
wrote:

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A couple of years back, and some things have probably gone up since. I'm still puttering on the finishing process (the joys of spare time DIY), and have not got all costs nicely collected, though I can ballpark you a figure of $30,000 or so, with only foundation, garage door, and roof hired out, for a 2000 square foot shop. That probably includes the $5000 spent on septic.
The panels (10 ft first floor walls, 8 foot second floor, 144 feet long) were about $10,000 with fasteners, splines, sealing foam, etc. These were "8 inch" panels (a 7-3/8" "2x8" fits in the edge if the foam is cut back) for R-34. You would probably be fine with 6 inch or even 4 inch panels, given milder climate - that also cuts your lumber costs. You no doubt need more attention to termite-proofing. Main floor is 11-1/2 feet tall as the 10 foot panels are on an 18" stemwall.
Trusses were $2500 or so. 16 square of metal roof (screw-through) $1600, plus $1250 or so for sloppy installation when I ran out of time and hired who I could get to put the thing on (one more downside of being 2-story, and far up in the air). Fancier metal roofs (standing seam) were quoted at $6000 and $8000 installed by fancier (or at least more expensive) contractors. With steel tripling or whatever since then, good luck.
Random lumber (no studs needed - top plate, bottom plate, and around window and door openings) perhaps another few thousand.
Couple hundred on housewrap under the siding. Siding is rough pine boards from local mill, 50 cents a square foot, $2000 or so. You could special-order T-111 for an outside face on the panel and call it done, but I hate T-111.
Drywall, when I get to it (want it on there for fire reasons, rather than having exposed OSB) about $1500. Ceiling insulation about $700.
Foundation and floor about $8000, but I'm guessing that you are re-using those. $100 to paint the concrete white with basic, non-fancy, non-slippery (no non-slip additive needed) concrete paint - makes a lot more light in there, easy to recoat or patch if needed, unlike fancy expensive slippery epoxy coatings.
Second floor, framing (TJIs) deck, etc - $3300 or so.
I spent about $4400 on windows, since I hate a dark cavern of a shop - the main shop floor has 6 3x6 foot windows, and a few smaller ones (large enough to get out of in case of fire), second floor has smaller ones, all are low-e & fiberglass framed.
10x10 garage door, well-insulated (R17.5), $1100 installed (manual operation). Much better deal than the man-door at $400 and R4 for 3x7.
Much of this could be much more, you have to keep plugging and try to find out what you can do to keep the price down - costs do not always appear to make logical sense. For instance, I considered insulated, stay in place concrete forms - supposed to save money. The forms alone cost 80% of having the whole foundation done by a crew with traditional forms - not an actual bargain, so I didn't do that. Likewise, I had to hunt for quite a while before finding a local mill for the siding, as the mill I had planned to get siding from went out of business, and many available options for the same material were 2 and 3 times the price.
The structural panel industry association: http://www.sips.org /
A good, short article on what SIPs are: http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00069.asp
The folks I bought mine from (they ship, but if you get a closer supplier who is reasonable, that should cost less). Some suppliers are jerks, just keep looking until you find one who will work with you. I had a closer supplier, but they got harder to deal with the more specific the project became, and I gave up on dealing with them. http://www.foamlaminates.com /
--
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Wow, great information, thanks for all of the details. You must have a pretty nice shop!!
Eide
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snipped-for-privacy@magichammer.net wrote:

Frame it out of square tubing and weld it together, then hang metal on it with screws. My garage is framed in 3" by .250 wall welded into one piece and bolted to the slab. It has withstood a pecan tree fall and 100 mph winds with no damage. Yeah, steel is up right now, but square corners are easy to jig up and trusses are a snap. Chop saw and a Lincoln 225 and ten pounds of 1106 rod. Should take about fifty hours to get up and ready for skin.
Charly
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Do the building in Steel Frame. I did a 20X20 that way and would never use wood again. Bob AZ
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On 24 Oct 2005 22:09:52 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@magichammer.net wrote:

I've always told myself that if I ever get to build a shop/forge from the ground up I will use straw bale. Cheap, solid, fire resistant, well insulated...
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Rusty Bedsprings wrote:

I'm quite interested in doing this on a small(er) scale.
Do you know of any web-based articles? I've seen basically how to do it, but how does one go about fire/vermin proofing?
--
BigEgg

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Stucco both sides (or stucco/plaster), & put it up on a concrete stemwall. There's a book, there's a strawbale mailing list (with archives) on crest.org, there are old articles from before the list on alt.architecture.alternative.
After years of participating in that discussion, and thinking I'd build with strawbale, I found that (with lack of local grain crops) importing straw was economically non-viable .vs. SIPs. Cordwood might just make sense here, but is a different deal.
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wrote:

Here are a few links to read over... http://www.greenbuilder.com/sourcebook/strawbale.html http://solstice.crest.org/efficiency/straw_insulation/ <-- This is the crest.org link mentioned in another response. http://www.geocities.com/PicketFence/Garden/8784/Rock2.html <-- very interesting method of a poured in place concrete roof, not a bale building but could maybe be adapted for bale use.
It is very true that you do need a local source of straw for the economics to work to your full benefit. As for fire and vermin the bales are coated inside and out with stucco or plaster. I have read studies where wall withstood extended periods of open flame contact with nothing more than cosmetic surface damage. Vermin are not really a problem because straw has no actual food value unlike hay. The vermin don't eat it, and a well made wall prevents any chance of habitation.
Smaller works well with bale but one of the real appealing points is also how fast the walls go up on larger building. Think of it like giant Lego.
I personally would go with post and beam with bale infill and incorporate an over head crane system with the money I saved on the building. Also add a second room or attached shed for compressor and generator storage to help with noise.
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Rusty Bedsprings wrote:

Thanks for the above.
That would work for me. I'm in the middle of farm country here - a coupla thousand bales would be no bother to get hold of.
--
BigEgg

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