keeping tiny work hot

Greetings, <idle question>
When an art smith makes small leaves or flower petals, say, it seems the stuff would cool very quickly. Does one heat the anvil, or hammer under a
torch flame, or what? Work really, really fast?
</idle question>
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"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad scientist com
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WORK FAST... keep the leaf off the anvil till point of strike, NEVER heat your anvil... this is baaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddd

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On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:40:15 GMT, "Paul"

Well, at least don't heat it up a lot. For those of us who work in areas with all 4 seasons a mild preheat of the anvil can be quite helpful. I'm talking about changing the temp from below freezing to say 60-70 deg F. Gobae - The Smith http://blacksmithsforum.oakandacorn.com
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I have seen, (but not tried) using a heated flat chunk of iron as a heat supply sink for the small part, it was tacked or wired to the hunk of metal and even placed into the forge fire that way, it helped the small part resist burning. Not sure if it is common practice among art forgers or not, but it did seem an interesting take on the problem of keeping small stuff hot.
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On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 17:38:26 -0500, Clamdigger wrote:

Thanks to all for the informative responses to a "just wondering" question.
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"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad scientist com
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It was somewhere outside Barstow when "Paul"
I've heard of Canadian smiths pre-heating anvils in Winter.
If you didn't, they broke !
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lol... this guy is in Pittsburg, not the artic circle....
wrote:

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Hey all, I once saw a film about Japanese saw makers. They forge out VERY thin blanks from tool steel. Here is the trick they use: Instead of forging out each blank one at a time they stack 4 or 5 blanks and forge they out as a bundle. They shuffle the blanks periodically so the outer most ones do not distort to much. Care must me taken not to overheat and weld the blanks together. This might not work well if the "leaves" you are trying to forge are really small. This will depend on how dexterous you are with tongs. Another way that might be more successful is to make a set of spring dies or invest in a fly press.
Glen G. in Pgh.
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Another method that also works is to use a scrap piece of plate (very much like a cutting block), heat this along with your leaf, and lay the leaf on top of the plate on top of the anvil. The scrap plate will help to keep the leaf hot without the leaf touching the anvil directly.
And, by the way, as you work throughout the day, your anvil will tend to get hot. Sometimes it gets to hot to leave you bare hand on.
Hope this helps, Paul
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On 17/3/05 6:33 pm, in article snipped-for-privacy@die.spammer.die, "Australopithecus scobis"

It depends on the leaf form but it is quite easy to maintain the heat in a small piece by just hitting it hard and fast. If you ever get the chance to see Uri Hofi demonstrate, take it. One of his party pieces is to heat a bit of 6mm bar and not only forge a leaf in one heat, but also to let it cool to black and then bring it back to red heat by hitting it fast.
Alan
--
Remove footwear to email


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to have a rep like he does i was more than a little surprised when i googled him and looked at his work... he's supposedly one of the best... yet the pieces i saw that he made... the guys on this forum from what i've seen exceed by far in design and beauty IMO
wrote:

a
to
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to
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Paul, While I agree with your taste in iron work concerning Uri Hofi i must warn you that he has a rather rabid fan club. Expect some flames for your comment. But that's part of the fun eh?
Glen G.
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Lol... wasn't dismissing the guy by any means... just left a lil unimpressed by the work he displayed on his site... an accomplished smith as he should have far more intricacy on display... I'm the new guy, not the old pro, but I've seen some very impressive work out of the guys on that newsgroup... thx for the warning though lol
p.s. if i offended anyone with my post i apologize... certainly didn't mean it as a dismissal or derogatory remark... just the honest opinion of an old hillbilly...

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The guys around here work the stock both hot and cold. Heat it up and while forming and tune it up while cooling. The heating, even if the color goes away fast, tends to anneal the work and therefore reduces the likelihood of cracking.
One guy I know heats a 1/2' thick plate to about 1800 degrees and lays it on the anvil to warm it up in the winter. He has an unheated shop.
If you hit small stock fast enough and hard enough, you can actually keep it glowing until your arm gives out! I have seen old time blacksmiths take a cold 5/16" dia. rod and heat it up to glowing just with the hand hammer. You forge the end as though you were making a square nail, working constantly to point the end. Don't try this with a cold anvil! I can't do it, quite. I can get the rod to go through all the temper colors and turn gray again. But, I can take a 3/8" rod, heat it to glowing, let it cool so the color goes away and then reheat it to glowing with the hand hammer. This is only to make a point about hitting hard, fast and acurately.
Pete Stanaitis ------------------------
Australopithecus scobis wrote:

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Pete & sheri wrote:

That, some char-cloth, and some tinder, and you could light your forge with your hammer. An idea that's been dancing in my head for years but hasn't been tried yet.
--

Carl West
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Yup, that's one of the tricks they pulled. They also used that method to light a cigarette. I thought of doing that in a demo, but I quit smoking many years ago and am still afraid that, if I had one in my mouth, I'd start again.
Let me say tho', that it's a great way to develop hammer control. To do this, you have to make every blow count and your 90 degree turn each time has to be prefect because you don't have time for any corrective blows. Corrective blows take enough time to examine that you loose heat. Even good smiths are pooped by the time they have done it.
Also, since you are hitting cold steel, it can be pretty hard on the arm and hand if you do it a lot. And, not the thing to do on a soft anvil.
Pete Stanaitis --------------
Carl West wrote:

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One other answer is: don't heat it at all! Or at least don't necessarily heat it work it. If you use very low carbon steel, it doesn't work harden very readily. You can work it for a while, heat it to anneal it, work it some more, etc.
Pete Stanaitis -----------------
Australopithecus scobis wrote:

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