thanks all,

I just wanted to thank everyone here who has offered advice.
I've got a blade in the oven tempering. Each succesive one has gotten
better and this last one came out of the quench hard enough to scratch glass. :) Soon I should have a knife that will let me see if Alvin knows what he's talking about with the full hard blades or if he's just blowing smoke. I think I'm going to like it. It is a drop point made from 1095 with a 5" handle and about 4.5" blade. It looks like it will be July before I get to where I can get some pictures to post.
When cleaning the scale off after quenching, the knife bit me so it has already tasted blood.
I also have been practicing my forge welding and have got the 4 of the last 5 to take. My practice steel has been some old rebar.
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Cool! :) What temperature and for how long? :)

Weird huh? :)

Alvin is just another shit-head but the hard-knife-blade part is right on the money... you'll soon see for yourself. :)

No access to a camera or scanner? :/ If it's not finished, that's cool, "pictures in progress". ;)

Cool. :)
On r.k they were saying a knife ain't yours until you cut yourself on it.

What is that stuff ~1075?
Alvin in AZ
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snipped-for-privacy@XX.com wrote:

Rebar? I think it starts at about -60 and goes up from there. Some of the big stuff (>1") sure looks like at least -80 in the grinder test. I know that if you make tent stakes out of it you need to re-normalize or the head shatters.
Charly
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Hehe... seems like everyone who's used it for something other than concrete work has been disappointed at least once. I think of it as the "mystery meat" of the metalworking world.
-- Bill H. [my "reply to" address is real] www.necka.net Molon Labe!
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Yeah, like a cold chisel is. :)

Picked up a hunk of what looks like oil-well drill-rod, hadn't got around to spark testing it yet tho. :/
Alvin in AZ
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If it is sucker rod, it used to be ~1050 or better for strength in tension. Those pumps down a few hundred to 10,000+ feet take a lot of pull and the rod has to be strong enough to support the pump load, its own weight, and the weight of the oil in the delivery pipe. Tough stuff
Now they use some high-strength alloys and sometimes even glass fiber rods. See: http://www.norrisrods.com/products_sucker_rods_specs.asp
Even the wells with gas pressure sometimes need brine, etc. pumped back out of them, though it is easier with the gas pressure helping. The well where I work is regularly pumped even though we get gas from it.
Got some used old-type rod from Target Oil Field Service in Canton, OH after trying a piece i got from my father, when he worked for an oil field service in Norman, OK. It sparked HC for sure and made some pretty nice using knives.
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snipped-for-privacy@XX.com wrote:

I set the oven at 400 F, but I think that puts the upper temperature at about 420 F. My oven thermomenter reads just short of half way between 400 and 450. I left it there for about a half hour. (Haven't got the handle on yet if someone with more experience thinks it needs more that is still possible.

The handle slabs are about half done. I need to get some epoxy (any recommendations?) Maybe by Monday or Tuesday it'll be done.

I have a film camera and have taken a few pics along the way. No digital camera or scanner. If I take a trip to Dallas before July, a buddy there has a digital camera. In July my brother and I are plannind a trip to see the folks. They have a digital camera and scanner.

Then I guess it's mine.

The sparks spread out more than 1095 and travel farther. Does that make sense? I know if I get the rebar to hot it crumbles in the fire. So there is a narrow temp range where the stuff will weld without the steel falling apart. I've picked up some A36 for some other stuff and will play the any extra in the fire. I also have a piece of aluminium I want to play in the fire with.
The blade has a warp of about 1/32". I can probably live with that since if I try to take it out, I'd probably make things worse or destroy the blade.

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~425F for half an hour is plenty long, I guess.
The steel reacts quicker to tempering at that temperature and above.
It's usually an hour at ~350F for maximum hardness and strength, but the failure will be a brittle one. Got that? ;) The machine test shows it's stronger at 350F but when it fails it breaks. :)
I need to scan a better graph but this one's pretty interesting comparing O1 (Mn based) to A2 (Cr based) and shows what I'm talking about.
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/graphA2vsO1.jpg
I want to get some Cr-based O7... it'll show A2 how it's done. ;)

For a sealer I use poly-urethane, but know, that it's still just a foam like that triple-expanding-insulating-stuff-in-a-can, just much less expanding. I really like it for slab handles with peened pins etc like a butcher knife, the wet wood isn't next to the iron that way and I can already see the advantages of it in just a couple years.
"2 ton" epoxy. :) Any of the faster-stuff is a friggin nightmare! :/ The fast stuff starts stiffing up as I'm finishing up mixing it. :/
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/hth4hss.jpg
(my hidden tang handle system)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/failedHSS.jpg
(power hacksaw blade)
That one failed after 22 years and was glued together with 5 minute epoxy as a test piece, figured it would only last 2 years. ;)
I didn't rough up the metal or anything just glued the sucker together. I figure animal fats softened the epoxy. The knife was only used for skinning and butchering several times a month on average. Not sure that better epoxy and roughing it up inside is going to be any better. :/
The fit is much better this time tho. :)

It sure as heck does. :)
Fewer carbon bursts that stop the streak, so they would naturally be farther apart when they do burst. I read & saw where the left-over bursts looked like little hollow-balls with a big hole in one side.
The streaks that don't burst just burn up and are mostly little round balls of iron oxide.

Not many around anymore, but looking down the blades of several Old Hickorys you'll see the warping that others (including me) never noticed until I started heat treating. Some are pretty bad really. :)
Warped 1/32"? ...that baby's one straight knife blade! :)
Alvin in AZ
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snipped-for-privacy@XX.com wrote:

temperature at

between
the
that
Then i'll try 350 for an hour on the next one. No, not the next one; that one is startes and is sort of a cross between a cleaver and machete. That is like a cleaver with the handle at the top and around 5" of cutting edge with over all blade shape reminescent of a short machete. Since it will likely get used rough, i'll take it softer.

(any
I was in town to see "the Guide" and stopped at a store. Nothing labled "2 ton" there. My choices were something formulated for fiberglass, 5 minute, quick set and 30 minute. I got the 30 minute and it is setting up now. I'm afraid the mating surfaces between slabs and tang aren't great.

I think i understand.

Somehow I managed to not get the blade perfect to the slabs (imagine that). So the point of the knife is aroung 3/32" out of true with the handles.
The next one will be better.
ONce the epoxy is set, a little final shaping of the handles, a good sharpening job and i get to cut.
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Sounds good to me. :)
DevCon calls their's "2 ton", 30-Minute sounds the same, it's actually a little stonger etc than the faster stuff and I guess DevCon wants you to know that? ;)
Work time is most important to me tho.
Sometimes it just doesn't go together right and you have to start over. With fast epoxy you might not be able to save the handle slabs! :/
Just had one go bad a few weeks ago, but was using poly-urethane... had all the time in the world and the special wood (cat claw acacia from a friend of the bride's yard) was saved and put back on the same blade later.
"All the time in the world" to also wear than stinkin poly-urethane glue off my fingers too tho. ;) A week later, at the wedding, I was still wearing some of that glue. :)
I was using annealed and straightened barbed-wire for pins.
The wood was too soft, the hande was too thick and the straightened barbed-wire buckles too easy. All 3 together. Switched to 16 penny finishing nails (.122") and re-drilled everything and it went back together like a charm the next day. :)
The wood was stiffend up a little by the old glue too. :)

The Bride's butcher knife is out of line about 1/8". Compared to some of the Old hickory's I seen that's pretty dangged good. :)

In certain ways, for sure, but Murphy has a way of sneaking in and showing up when you figured you had that simple problem fixed once and for all. :/
"Ooops, I know better than that. How'd I go and let that happen?"

Also a little "creative handle slab shaping" can straighten the sucker up. ;)
Please don't ever forget that this stuff is -hand made- and not expected (or supposed?) to be perfect.
Sloppy-ass work is one thing but this ain't what you're doing, compared to Picasso it's beautiful, I'm sure. :)
As far as fit, wood-workers talk about "glue starved joints" being weak, not sure what that means in any sort of quanity tho. :/
Andy D.?
Alvin in AZ
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Well, I'm am satisified enough to call it done. Had a heck of a time getting the edge bevels set up where I think I want them. My files tended to polish the edge instead of shaping. So I got the dremel and a bucket of water.
The particulars- in shape it most resembles an "Outback restraunt" steak knife. Overall length - 9", handle length - 5", cutting edge - 3.75", spine thickness - just over 1/8". handle x-section - somewhere between not-quite-square and oval 7/8" x 3/4" (I like an "oversize" handle, easier to grip), Handle material - maple sealed with cyanoacrylate glue (super glue), brass pins (still need to work on doing those), blade material - 1095. Full tang.

I was able to bring it back to about 1/16". It looks fairly straight to a casual look. Considering what I'm working with, it's durned near perfect. My current tool set for this is - anvil, forge and hammers; files that need to play phoenix (go into the fire to be reborn as something else); a dremel. And oh yes, my workbench is usually my lap. (praying i don't slip with something sharp)

Murphy?? Wasn't he that optimist that came up with some law?? :)
I'm still at the phase of the learning curve where I'm getting better with each one.

You simply must understand, my hold on reality is tenuous at best and the world inside my head is perfect. Every now and then the real universe intrudes onto my world and messes with my mind.

I can accept some problems but still strive for perfection.
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