Wooden workshops

I see a lot of exposed wood about in many web pictures of "blacksmith's" shops. Do any of you worry about setting fire to your wood built shops?
Am I being too fussy trying to fireproof or cover up all combustible materials in mine?
The Beagle.
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Probably. But traditional shops were probably small and set away from other buildings for the obvious reason (containing the fire when they burned down). It can't hurt to be somewhat paranoid about not burning the place down; but it's somewhat difficult to light a post and beam, if you don't permit flammable trash to accumulate.
--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

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The Beagle wrote:

Anyone who's ever tried to start a log on fire with a Bic knows that wood is pretty slow to get going. What will light your wooden shop up would be a bunch of tinder lying around, particularly in a spot where there's a good fuel load above it (such as trash lying against a wooden wall). The best, from a fire-starting point of view, would be a pile with a range of sizes so the small pieces will catch the medium sized pieces, which will burn long enough to catch the large pieces, etc.
If I were going to build a shop I'd build out of brick or metal. If I were moving into a wooden shop and I couldn't sheetrock everything in sight I'd keep it scrupulously clean*, I'd make sure that all fires were contained before I turned my back, and out before I left. I would _not_ try this in a shop that has oil-soaked or creosoted wood. I think if you did that you'd have a long and happy relationship with your shop.
Come to think of it, there's generally enough fuel load in a "metal" or "brick" shop to carry a pretty good fire, unless you were way careful about how it was built.
* Actually I'm incapable of keeping things that clean and being productive, so I just wouldn't use a wooden shop...
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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I reckon your worst risk is dust lying on rafters - sparks go up, and flame not noticed until too late.
AWEM
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My shop is made of used fencing boards, I was worried about fire hazards as well, but after using it on a regular basis, knock on wood, no mishaps so far. My biggest concern was the heat going up into the roof area, its a bit low, but with the ventilation and fan I'm using I don't think the heat can build up enough to start a fire...I hope so any ways. T

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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:58:33 -0000, "The Beagle"

I dont think you could be too fussy in trying to fireproof your shop. I built my new one out of metal. (still used wood studs though). In my old shop, which was wood, I had one small kinda scarery fire. I used some bizzare mixture of oil, diesel fuel and something else as a quench. Made this big bowie knife for a guy, when I quenched it, it flamed up, no big deal, I just put the lid on like many times before. Only prob was the handle just stuck up enough for the lid not to seal. It just turned into a mess. I pulled the knife out, flames shooting up, ran to the back door to grab the fire extinguisher, when I turned around I realized the knife was dripping flaming quenching oil all over the floor. As the quench tank burned it got hotter and hotter, dense black smoke filling up the room. No real damage, but it did scare me. Anyways I then ordered a 5 gallon bucket of Faxam quenching oil. heh... on the bucket is "Caution: Keep away from heat, sparks, open flames" etc. It actually works like a charm, no flame or smoke.
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Even outside, the -smoke- from crap like that can catch fire... while you're standing in it, surrounded by it. Almost BTDT. :/
All you guys make a point of wearing 100% cotton too, right?

The dangged stuff just plain ol' does a better job of quenching too!
So why not guys? :/ Safer and does a better job both, what else do you want? Free? Considering the cost "as insurance" help any? ;)
I found some for sale in Phoenix, $52 for 5 gallons. He claims a local automotive spring shop buys it pretty regular.
I bought 2 gallons from Brownell's over 10 years ago and now need 2 more gallons to raise the level (high enough for butcher knives) on my new bigger quench tank, it's cheaper to buy 5 gallons from the Oil Distributor in Phx than 2 from Brownell's. :/
My new quench tank is a stainless steel soda-pop-can with the top third cut off.
Alvin in AZ
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:59:38 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@XX.com wrote:

wow I dont remember Faxam being that expensive, but its been about 10 years since I bought my 5 gallon bucket. I ordered it from the oil distributor in Billings MT for I thought about 30 bucks and that included shipping it 200 miles. Yeah I love the stuff. I use a large ammo can for most of my quenching, seems to work good cause I do an edge first instead of point first quench, if that makes sense, then I can close the lid and it stays clean till next time. The 5 gal was enough to fill about a 4 in diameter pipe that was about 4 feet tall, for swords. Wont be though if I do swords again, cause I'll want to make a jig to hold the swords while quenching to keep the warpage down. BTW you dont know a good source for coal or coke in northern AZ do ya Alvin?
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No kidding on that either, it does a better job.
I started out with ATF (automatic transmission fluid) besides nearly catching myself on fire, the results weren't as good.
Since thin blades are my "thing" I get away with quenching 1095 and 50100-B in oil.

I need to try that, might help with my butcher knives. :)

Sorry, don't know nuthin about coal or coke. :/
I'm not a blacksmith, just a self-taught high carbon steel metallurgy nerd and knife blade+spring heat+cold treater.
I guess, Arizona's Black Mesa's got the wrong kind of coal? :/
Alvin in Vail:/ AZ (got "bumped" and never made it back to Bowie) ps- retired railroad signal ape
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:58:33 -0000, "The Beagle"

Traditionally wooden beams would be chamfered on the edges to reduce the risk of fire. It's near impossible to set the surface of a beam on fire, but much easier at a sharp edge.
The best defence against fire is a broom and using it to keep the workshop clean - floor and dust-catching surfaces.
--
Smert' spamionam

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Andy Dingley wrote:

My smithy is just a corrugated iron roof on posts, with nothing in it smaller than a 2x4 except my kindling box, which stays well away from the fire and the oil bucket. IMHO if you're concerned about fire safety you want a dirt or concrete floor, no walls so fumes can't build up to poison you or flash--though our climate here is mild and I might wimp out on the walls business if we had a lot of snow or hard freezes. Finally, use solid fuel, not gas.
Maybe it's just me, but in my whole life I've seen one house fire from solid fuel (burnthrough on a cheap tin woodstove) and half a dozen houses and RV's utterly destroyed by gas explosions. As in an acre wide and a foot high. Also, no one was hurt in the solid fuel house fire, and the place was rebuildable. Four people died in the gas explosions.
Medieval smithies had a reputation of being fire hazards, but that may have been the combination of thatch roofs and charcoal fuel. The times I've used charcoal I've had sparks everywhere, but at least I haven't had a straw roof overhead! Not a common problem today, but a definite issue for historical reenactors.
The comments about sweeping up are good advice, though. Dust explosions are a real hazard if lots of combustible dust can accumulate somewhere and then get shaken up into the air, especially from surfaces like the tops of rafters. In contrast, the more obvious worries like hot coals or hot-cut chunks of metal don't seem to cause big problems--at least as long as you pay attention to where they go, and clean up the clutter so there's no place for them to land and smolder away unnoticed.
I've heard of a few fires from shops where aluminum and steel were run on the same grinder, though. By pure chance the right mix of aluminum dust and ruisted iron powder built up behind the grinder, and then a hot spark lit it. Homemade thermite, which you are not likely to put out with a fire extinguisher. "No aluminum on grinder!" is a sign worth posting, or if you do need to grind the occasional bit, use that as the reminder to clean up the dust.
Conrad Hodson
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Good point and one I keep forgetting. :/
Too busy thinking about how the aluminum's going to plug up my wheel instead of what I should be thinking about. ;)
BTW, I figure every blacksmith should witness, at least once, the railroad welders "field weld" rail using thermite powder.
Stop and ask about it to anyone working on the tracks, they'll tell you the welder to get a hold of and a phone number. Or by chance exactly where to go, that day, if you asked early enough in the day.
Generally they get told where they'll be welding that day in the morning, one day at a time. Sometimes on a big job when the "steel gang" is in the area that could be a month long job and predictable.
BYOG (bring your own (about number 5) goggles:)
New friggin rules might prevent it tho. :(
Alvin in AZ
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wrote:

Now that "sparked" a memory. I once was doing presentation boxes with the belt grinder and being the slob I am didnt clean up before working on blades again. Went to the house for lunch, returned to a shop full of smoke! Just as you said, build up behind the grinder. Chared my bench but fortunately didnt burst into flames. I didnt know that about aluminum though, I'll watch out for that too.
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wrote:

That is a good piece of advise, for a while I worked an aluminum foundry, in the finishing and grinding departments they had signs everywhere reading "NO IRON OR STEEL ON THE GRINDERS".
If you do have to regularly grind both iron and aluminum and you have the room and coin it's a good idea to set up seperate grinders, each with their own dust collectors.
Bear
The first rays of dawn make the mushrooms scream. I think with careful cultivation I can make them do "Ode to Joy".
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