115 pc drill sets a waste?

BQ340 fired this volley in news:4d8942b4$0$23134 $ snipped-for-privacy@newsreader.readnews.com:

You didn't say what you paid for the set, but if you do any (read that as _ANY_) press fits or shrink fits, you'd notice in a big hurry.

LLoyd

Yes, I said: "bought the Enco $100 118 degree set a couple of years ago"

You may be correct about a press fit. I was taught to drill undersize & ream, I did not know you could drill them directly.

MikeB

BQ340 fired this volley in news:4d8949db$0$23115 $ snipped-for-privacy@newsreader.readnews.com:

You certainly can't drill directly on large diameters (say, over .25"), but you can with smaller bits and a good, low TIR chuck -- IF the bits are well-sized and properly ground.

I've had multiple sets of both the inexpensive "made in USA" and Chinese

I even followed the (good) advice of "buy cheap, then replace the ones you use with good bits", but inevitably ended up screwing up some expensive work with the _next_ cheap bit I used. So I eventually broke down and sprung for a _really_good_ set, and haven't looked back. (and yeah... I still bugger one up now and then, but I buy the replacements from the same source). Just one messed-up part 60% into the job is justification for the price.

LLoyd

LLoyd

Lloyd, this Shars one, seems to be different.

My own preference is for the 135 degree angle, which usually includes a split point -- does not walk on starting on a slight angle, unlike the chisel points with the 118 degree points. I even was able to drill a cross hole in a 5/16" round shaft (for a roller for the garage door tracks) to install a cotter pin using a hand held electric drill motor with it still in the garage door. No way I would have been able to do that without a spotting drill first with the 118 degree chisel points.

The split point also means that you need a lot less force to drill reasonably than with a chisel point.

Enjoy, DoN.

I've seen one with one of the two flutes ground with a negative clearance angle on the tip. :-)

And the index that these come is is a real pain to use compared to a real HUOT index.

Enjoy, DoN.

Ooof! Sorry.

If you log on to

You will see what I'm on about. Highly recommended. It is on page 57 of their current web catalog. Top right corner.

I tried again. Perhaps these will work better.

--Winston

Mea culpa, DoN.

See also my corrected reply to PrecisionmachinisT

--Winston

As for Chinalloy -- I had a set perhaps around 1962 or so of bits from Japan before good tools started coming from there. Butter steel. Terrible -- a set of 1/16" to 1/4" in a little index with a clear plastic front panel in the index.

The 115 piece bit set which I got, while marked "Made in USA" on the flyer, was over $200.00 perhaps ten years ago or more, and was (and still is) a very good set (from MSC, FWIW).

Had I known then what I know now, I would have paid extra for the 135 degree split point set. I've got a set of semi "Silver & Deming" fractional bits with split points -- and no shank larger than

I've also got a set of cobalt steel number (wire sized) bits in screw machine length with the 135 degree split points. I'm quite pleased with these.

I tried that with a cheap set of metric bits -- and quickly gave them away after looking at the grind -- and experiencing the index, which was terrible. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

O.K. Still not enough income to justify the expensive solution.

I am likely to do this sort of thing while watching news on the TV, or reading (but not replying to) these newsgroup postings. Or -- while waiting for the little CNC lathe to tell me it is ready for the next tool or the next workpiece.

Mine *knows* that any project involves purchasing tools. She even helps me when I am working on our car -- by handing me tools while I am under the car or whatever. She's even gotten to the point where she anticipates the next tool some of the time. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

But don't reamers cost a fortune?

Thanks, Rich

I thought that 135° bits would walk more, especially when hand-held. What am I missing?

Pete Stanaitis

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F. George McDuffee wrote:

I'd also like to know. Doesn't a center-punch (or center drill, on a mill) help with that? Have you found drill bits to walk in an ordinary drill press?

I'd have thought that the 135 degree bit would be applicable for a more aggressive cut than a 115, or maybe it simply has to do with what you want the bottom of the hole to look like, but I simply don't know.

Thanks, Rich

O.K. Sort of what I expected. I find one line in the first one interesting:

====================================================================== Number of Drawers: 3.000 ======================================================================

They could offer some with an increment of 0.001 drawer? :-)

Same applies to all of the above.

I had to go to the catalog page to see the images.

A little too expensive for me. I keep envelopes of the various sized drills in order in a storage bin -- except for the two sizes of left-hand drill bits, which are stored where I have to remember to look for them to avoid accidental use. My drill presses don't have reverse available, just the hand held electric and pneumatic drill motors.

Yes -- those actually work. But the catalog numbers and the main catalog URL were sufficient. And easy enough to go from one to the next with the "find it" near top center of each page.

Interesting that they only list 0.5 mm size steps for the metric drill bits. I've got two HUOT metric drill indexes with 0.1 mm steps. I guess that Huot makes the dispensers in 0.1mm size steps too.

I like the #1 - #80 dispenser (the most expensive one listed there.)

Thanks, DoN.

(...)

An accurate *and* precise description; people still complain. :)

(...)

One bonus of the drawers is that after I retrieve a bit, I can take one of it's mates and prop it up as a marker so that I can put the bit back in the proper bin quickly.

(...)

Penn Tool is a little cheaper for that part:

--Winston

How do you define a non-integer count of drawers? By weight compared to some standard drawer?

There is such a thing as excess precision. I knew a machinist who did woodwork to 0.001" -- even knowing that it was going to change when the next cloud blew by. :-)

He was doing it for himself, so he was free to do so -- but doing it for someone else, and *charging* for the extra time and care needed to reach that level of precision is another thing. Of course, if the drawings *called* for that level of precision, everything would be rejected by outgoing inspection anyway, unless the whole shop and inspection area were climate controlled. :-)

O.K. When I go to the bins of bit envelopes, that bit is going into an index to replace the too-dull one as soon as its immediate job is done.

Yes -- quite a bit cheaper. And I see that *they*, at least, list the smaller metric in steps of 0.1 mm -- though to cover the full range that I have we still have problems -- because the 7.0 to 13.0 (in the 1 mm to 13 mm case) is in steps of 0.5 mm. Hmm not using the 1.0 to

BTW Have you noticed the little hook on the left side of the partition between the letter and number sizes in the 115 bit HUOT indexes? Ever wondered what it is for? It turns out to be just right to hold the HUOT #61-80 index, which I already had, so I have a 125 bit index instead of 115 bit. :-)

I wonder which of the wire size ranges is covered by the "Fractional, Wire & letter Dispensers"

And I wonder which of the drawer sets has been relabeled to make the #1 to #80 (84 compartments) set. Since the price is the same as the "Metric 1mm to 6.9 mm by 0.1 mm" set, and I suspect that they go by the amount of metal used, they may be the same but for labeling. But the metric set would use only 59 slots, not 84.

Enjoy, DoN.

Either that or by determining what fraction of an additional bit a given drawer could accommodate in relation to the average drawer of the same size range. I will stop here because I do not want the headache. :)

'Harmless Crazy'. I know it well.

(Insert sea story of machinists passing part inspection by thermally growing the workpiece in hand on the way to QC.)

Ah! I'm not that systematic.

:)

--Winston

Oh, foo - that's just stupid software. I've seen it on packing lists and parts lists, it just means "exactly." (like "quantity required:

BTW, today I saw Joe the Real Machinist turn an aluminum part down to plus or minus half a thou or less. I was sitting here in my office, and he came to my door, and said, "Hey, Rich, my dial caliper said I still have seven thou to go, so I miked it and it's within a thou, but I think I can kiss it down to dead nuts. My dial caliper is off by seven thou!" I said, "Well, it's a good thing you stopped to check!"

I think he got it dead nuts, at least at room temperature. I think it's a pride thing. :-)

Oh, just remembered - for lube he was using something that looks and feels very much like 80 weight gear oil. And he had a brand-new carbide insert in his bit holder in his tool holder.

Cheers! Rich

Somebody mentioned measuring the hole and then checking the wall chart to see what size drill bit is appropriate... That reminded me of the drill bit calculator we wrote a while ago - measure what you need with your caliper, enter the dimension in the utility and it pops up nearest drill size.

In addition to showing the next larger fractional, letter/number and metric size drill bits corresponding to a decimal value input, plus the next two larger and smaller drills - and the clearance, it now also displays target RPM for a particular drill size,

It defaults to 60 SFPM (a good start for mild steel) and you can tweak the value depending on the material being cut or drilled.

The executable is compressed in "Fractions.zip" and downloadable from Shareware, so if it is helpful to you, send us a couple of bucks.

Eventually I should upload it to the dropbox, but as long as I'm updating occasionally it seems best to keep it on my site.

Carla

Winston Churchill once came to Virginia after WWII to attend the unveiling of a bust honoring him at a local university. At the reception afterwards this well-endowed southern belle pushed her way through the crowd and came up to Churchill, where she told him that she had driven all night over 200 miles to see the unveiling of his bust. Churchill looked down at her chest and then up into her eyes and said "Madam, I would have done the same for you!" No wonder why we love this guy.