Drill Sharpeners

The only one I've ever used is my Darex M5. I purchased the unit when I lived in Phoenix because a shop I worked for was drilling a lot of
weldments and I got tired of using beat to "s" drills. After the shop owner saw me using it he agreed to pay me to sharpen the shops drills on the side. It didn't take long for me to pay for the Darex M5. I haven't had the need to use it since.
In any case, the point of this post is that it seems to me that many people expect that you put a beat to "s" drill in a drill sharpener and it automatically gives you a perfect drill with split points and the web properly thinned. The Darex M5 certainly doesn't work like this. You have to adjust it and keep tweaking it in till it's right.... then you can do other drills which are the same size without adjustment.
With the large drill attachment and I think one for small drills I believe I paid like $1,300 for the Darex M5. My M5 has diamond wheels and easily does cobalt drills.
Once you have things dialed in on the Darex M5 you get a drill that easily holds size and that drills properly.
Since I haven't used other drill sharpeners I wonder if with other drill sharpeners you can sharpen a drill without the need to tweak the drill in if you change drill sizes? If something like this exists if it's as portable as the Darex M5 and what is the cost? For what it is and for what it costs I have found the Darex M5 to be a decent piece of equipment.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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Drill Doctor 750. About a hundred bucks (I think). I had a 1/2" 24" long drill that I really beat to crap drilling through cinder block (I got stuck doing this unexpectedly, and didn't have my carbide drill with me). This drill was totally ruined, and the drill doctor brought it back just fine.
I'm not familiar with the M5, but with the DD, you just chuck up the drill, set the depth and have at it. It's really pretty simple after you do it once or twice.
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Had a Darex SP2500 in a shop I worked in, it worked great, simple to operate. It did take a little tweaking the first time, (folks before me beat it up some), but afterwards, ran like a champ, repeated well and was easy to maintain. I wouldn't mind finding another one in an auction.
"D"
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I tried a Darex SP2500 very briefly. The SP2500 replaced the Darex M5. It's basically the same thing as the M5 and works the same way. The biggest difference is that the ground drill particles stay inside the SP2500. The SP2500 still requires the same amount of tweaking as the M5 when you change drill sizes. I think the biggest advantage of the SP2500 is a sales thing... it looks easier to operate even thought it's not any easier than the M5 and it looks more advanced. The reality is that they both use the same chucks and the same concept. Personally I'd rather have the guts exposed rather than hidden.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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I tried a Darex SP2500 very briefly. The SP2500 replaced the Darex M5. It's basically the same thing as the M5 and works the same way. The biggest difference is that the ground drill particles stay inside the SP2500. The SP2500 still requires the same amount of tweaking as the M5 when you change drill sizes. I think the biggest advantage of the SP2500 is a sales thing... it looks easier to operate even thought it's not any easier than the M5 and it looks more advanced. The reality is that they both use the same chucks and the same concept. Personally I'd rather have the guts exposed rather than hidden.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
We have a SP2500 at work also.. other than occasionally cleaning and dressing the wheel, there is no tweaking needed between sizes or uses...Admittly, I rarely, if ever use it on anything less than 1/4" nor over 3?4" but within those sizes, it's done.
Your mileage may vary...keep your stick on the ice...offer void where prohibited.
Mike
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In my opinion what would make both of these Darex drill sharpeners a lot better is if they had a built in optical measuring system that didn't require you to remove the drill from the chuck. This way you could quickly and easily measure the drill lips to see if you had ground them exactly equal.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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The Sterling drill sharpener is the most profesional machine I've used. Not sure if they make them any longer. It will even handle very large drills, with a change in set up plate. I've used Darex & Drill Doc machines, their ok for smaller drills, but as you mentioned, reqiure some dicking around & fineness to get the relief angle correct, even the amount of force used whilst holding the drill setup against the wheel + the diamond/borazon wheel cannot take much off per pass& their 1 size fits all range collets & plastic cam housings are kind of chinzy. The only nice part is they do the web thinning very nice, the Sterling does not. The MAIN thing is with drills are to get both flutes the same, whatever angle 135/118's & whatever relief angles SAME-SAME. For example titanuim requires higher relief & tool steels do not. I've always done web thinning on 1/4" & larger drills by hand on a sharp cornered surface grinder wheel. The simplest sharpener I've used was the little electric moter type that used a small cup wheel & square scissor type fixture holder that slides across using the internal part of the cup wheel. Not sure of the name. But the abrasive wheel would grind & acutally "self dress" not burn like the diamond/ borazon types. Its a DRILL, not a jig borer. expect a +.002" hole, sometimes .005"? If closer dia. holes are needed, better drill under size & open up to correct size, as the case with pre drilling for fine thread taps, especially the large ones for cylinder threads. Otherwise REAM.
smallest drill I've used .007"(endmill also- in graphite) drilled way too many vacuum holes in blow molds by hand #80 way to many water lines in P-20/4140/Hot rolled - my record 30"(1/2&1/2) 18" long 7/16"dia gurhing parabolic flute. The 6' radial arm drill press only had 12" of travel, so the last 3" were done by lowering the head. Biggest hole 3 1/2" spade drill - for support pillars in mold ejector plates.
drilling hardened tool steels (like adding ko pins) is another topic. Used to make my own "square" drills on the deckel grinder, they call'em do-drills. But that was the "good ol days" Now hole poppers & TWEDM's rule.
Good ridden s those days are gone. Now its just fun to reminisce. Now I just play with a new Hurco VMX with DXF conversational input & Cimatron for the 3D stuff.
We now return you to the economic collapse, already in progress
\|||/ (o o) ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________ ~ Gil ~ the HOLDZEM king
http://www.herrmannultrasonics.com / The Recognized Technology Leader in Ultrasonic Plastic Welding
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Is this what you are referring to?
http://www.drill-grinder.com /

I don't have a problem getting .001.

Your loser / liar pal Cliff Huprich says everything must be associative all the time. He also has said that DXF isn't the way to go and that IGES is the only way to go. Suggest you start searching Google to see what an idiot this lying / loser is. Absolutely no real / practical experience in at least 25 years and maybe more. I think it's much more likely Cliff Huprich never had any to begin with.

Sorry I've declined to participate. Didn't Gunner insist that the end of the world was GM bankruptcy and when GM took the economy would basically collapse. Yeah, right.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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Depending on your specific type work, sometimes things are *better* being ass o shooutive. Your opinion on loser lair & pals may need to be............ reverse engineered? Again we are all entitled to opinions, some are right & some are wrong, usually mis informed. I think (my opinion now) every one can contribute here, at their skill level & experience. I don't know it all, but I'll share what I do know.
Believe nothing you hear & only 1/2 of what you see.<g>

I don't want to participate either, but we are cought in it without a way out at this point. I saw this coming 10years ago, was ready to march in DC, with organizers that gave up. Why??? $$$????$$$???

===================================================== ______ /_____/\ Best Regards, /____ \\ \ Gil Pawl /_____\ \\ / HOLDZEM /_____/ \/ / / /_____/ / \//\ West Chicago, IL \_____\//\ / / USA \_____/ / /\ / \_____/ \\ \ \_____\ \\ \_____\/ ====================================================
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wrote:

Depending on your specific type work, sometimes things are *better* being ass o shooutive. Your opinion on loser lair & pals may need to be............ reverse engineered? Again we are all entitled to opinions, some are right & some are wrong, usually mis informed. I think (my opinion now) every one can contribute here, at their skill level & experience. I don't know it all, but I'll share what I do know.
Believe nothing you hear & only 1/2 of what you see.<g>

I don't want to participate either, but we are cought in it without a way out at this point. I saw this coming 10years ago, was ready to march in DC, with organizers that gave up. Why??? $$$????$$$??? ==============================================Yup, this DJA ponzi scheme has been going on just about 10 years. I remember when Le PBS Sleaze Louis Ruykheiser used to have all the Bears on, who jut looked like idiots, in this bullshit Bull Run.
THEY knew this bullshit couldn't last, they just dint know why, or that it would last so long.
And Jim Cramer is STILL prattling away. Why someone doesn't accelerate when they see him crossing a street is beyond me....
--

Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav CongressShill) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
  Click to see the full signature.
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Yup thats it. Very simple, easy to setup& twist the drill for more relief. Man they've improved it a bit since the one I used. Wonder what they cost? My boss & colleges seem to think Darex would be the one to buy. I say F-it. go to tool crib & get new cobalt split point TiAln coated drill for the job:-) - put old one in box marked "send out for sharpening"(my box)<g> Ah its nice working for a successful company, after all those years in the trenches.

better think about jig grinding :-) Should be able to get a Moore very cheap now days, problem being, nobody knows how to use'em

It is, only because my old Cimatron IT13 circa 1994 does not handle STEP,SAT,PARASOLDS,VDA very well. But NEVER has failed with ANY type of IGES or Pro/E neutral files, also does very well with DXF & DWG files, retaining interal blocks & pattern names. IGES has been around forever. Everybodys CAM systems seem to be able to at least make some sort of IGES except AutoCad- its an option! Plus its man readable text file. Ive gotten IGES files that could not be read into ANY other system, Cimatron read it in. Why? the header had some BullShit in it puy in by the native system.
Suggest you start searching

Hey some of the smartest people I have worked with could not even turn on a Bridgeport, but they were very intelligent "thinkers" good ideas & concepts. Thats why they have people like us to get'er done :-)

=============================> ______

============================ ~g~
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The prices are listed on their website. Sounds like you still have to tweak the drill in though. Is it asking too much to be able to quickly and easily sharpen the drill, thin the web and split the points *without having to tweak it in* ? Usually / always when I need a drill sharpened I don't have to time to "f" around and I need to get the job setup or keep it running yesterday!

As I posted I own a Darex M5. What I haven't said in this thread is I started this thread for a few reasons:
1: To gain knowledge of what else exists.
2: I have someone who wants to buy my almost new Darex M5 and I want him to know the truth about the Darex M5 and what the problems are.... in my opinion it's not fast enough to solve the problem you sometimes or often experience (depending on the machining job shop you work in). See what I wrote above.
When I buy something I like full disclosure and when I sell something I like to give that... even if the buy doesn't care.... too damn bad that's the way I wish to do business compared to say the Joe788 way where the "a" hole thinks you have to screw some sucker over to make a buck when you sell something that has problems with it.

Obviously I now experience the same thing you do. I'm not afraid to go back to the trenches and continue my education if the need ever arises.

What I meant is that DXF is what the standard is for machine controls like EZ Trak, Prototrak, Haas, Hurco, etc. , etc. Your idiot / liar pal Cliff Huprich has no clue in this area. It's not like you or I or an idiot and a liar like Huprich is going to change this. It is what it is.

Cliffy Huprich would be fired so "f"ing fast in any machining job shop I've ever worked in that your head would spin. Do I think he's a complete idiot... no. He's got some old and valuable CADCAM experience. However, he's got no practical machining experience that I've ever seen and he's also a massive liar. For years he's claimed utter B.S. like I've never worked in a machining job shop, I don't use Mastercam, I have kids, etc, etc... the list is like a mile long. He's a liar in the same regard as Tom Brewer and Joe 788.

Not with the enviorment that these "a" holes have created. Add to this all the off topic political "s" and a idiot / moron like Bottlebob who thinks he's going to change someone like Cliff Huprich or me for that matter and puts up God only knows how many posts that are as bad as the off topic political B.S. and you have the mess we now have. In my opinion if we had more posts like this it would be a far better newsgroup. I could probably crank out at last 5 more like this on different subjects in the next day or so.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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This link was mentioned in this thread by someone I will no longer respond to because he's often a first class "a" hole and Im all done playing his kiddy games.
http://www.novatechonline.com/products/mega/mega.htm
These guys definitely seem to have the right idea! No doubt their stuff is way out of my price range / way over priced.
I think the answer might be to find someone who makes an optical system or put one together where I could quickly mount the Darex chucks and optically measure what I have. For it to be worth my time it would have to be a smaller almost portable unit. With a unit like this I would know for sure the lips are equal rather than hoping what I got was good enough.
As always in a machining job shop it's all about time.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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I guess I'm not the only one that sees this as a problem:
http://www.titantoolsupply.com/store.asp?pid 563
"The Optical Drill Geometry Analyzer is an inexpensive optical instrument available for checking of proper twist drill re-sharpening. Whether this is done free hand on a fixture or on a more expensive drill sharpening machine, industry lacks a quick and easy way of checking the results. What happens so often is that an improperly sharpened drill is used which results in incorrect hole diameter, poor drill control and excessive breakage."
The only way I can see this tool as being a help is if you don't have to remove the drill from the Darex chuck to check it and for that I think you'd have to redesign this tool. In addition, this tool seems like it could be designed better. Specifically the use of different overlays.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 22:53:53 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

I am at a loss to understand this tirade about "drill sharpening devices". Machinists learn to sharpen tools during their apprenticeship.
Is one to assume that this is not a conversation between machinists?
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On Jul 4, 2:18 am, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You asked me the question so I'll answer it and give you my perspective:
1. It's a quest for knowledge and perfection.
2. I'll take information that can help me drill faster and more accurately from anyone who posts it even if I consider those who have posted the information to be liars, slimeballs, jerks, etc.
3. It doesn't matter to me that I've never used drill bits like some of the one's shown in the link below in any shop I've worked in or a drill sharpener like several that have been mentioned has never existed in any shop I've ever worked in.
http://www.novatechonline.com/products/mega/grinding_examples.htm
4. If I can buy a piece of equipment like the one above used for say $1,500 and gain an advantage I will even though I have already purchased and paid for a drill sharpener and have spent some time learning how to use it.
5. I you think that sharpening drills like those shown in the above link and video on that website by hand in 60 seconds is possible that's your right just like it's my right to disagree with you.
6. I like that this piece of equipment is Swiss made. Some of the best tools I own are Swiss made.
7. I love the concept that you check the drill with a built in optical measuring system before and while you are grinding it! Before the link that was posted was posted I had come to the conclusion through using my own paid for Darex M5 that there had to be a better way than trail and error. Trial and error wastes time that I don't feel I have to waste working in a high pressure environment where time is a huge factor in what you do. 60 seconds to do a drill right the first time is something I feel would benefit me greatly.
8. I suggest you download the Mega Point video and watch it because it might help you realize what you don't grasp at all now.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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membership is free! their maybe some charter memebers still here!

You m,ight be right, I think for a touch-up it might be like 30 secs. been there done it. with my eye closed. simple is ALWAYS the best. My 7yr old niece could use this & get good results. ITS A DRILL NOT A JIG GRINDER http://www.drill-grinder.com

Ya Ya, mine exec/vp is sviss. so is my interapid, etalon
ya no the swiss&germans, they make good $$stuff$$,(vince sham-wow) Herrmann has 10 ultrasonic apps on the new Mercedes E class

anybody still use the drill protractor gauge? I do, be lost w/o it on big drills.
Before the link

If you want benefits in time savings, dont waste it with optical comparisons for drill sharpening unless that's your main stay.
Anybody have a Deckel/Alexadria single lip cutter grinder (my favorite machine in the whole wide world) with a drill sharpening attachment? Seen it in the book years ago, but never used one.

sorry not time for downloads, gotta hand sharpen some carbide spade drills for 40+yr old face brick. Fucken shit is like glass! Damn who needs an outside spicket anyway, carry 5gal buckets outa the basement sink for wartering/carwashing <g> good exersise, but ya need 2 to balance the load.

\|||/ (o o) ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________ ~ Gil ~ the HOLDZEM king
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wrote:

Drilling, Turning, Grinding, Threading and Milling your right it's simple stuff so what do we need all these catalogs and specialty tools for anyway.........LOL
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz
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wrote:

membership is free! their maybe some charter memebers still here!

You m,ight be right, I think for a touch-up it might be like 30 secs. been there done it. with my eye closed. simple is ALWAYS the best. My 7yr old niece could use this & get good results. ITS A DRILL NOT A JIG GRINDER http://www.drill-grinder.com

Ya Ya, mine exec/vp is sviss. so is my interapid, etalon
ya no the swiss&germans, they make good $$stuff$$,(vince sham-wow) Herrmann has 10 ultrasonic apps on the new Mercedes E class

anybody still use the drill protractor gauge? I do, be lost w/o it on big drills.
Before the link

If you want benefits in time savings, dont waste it with optical comparisons for drill sharpening unless that's your main stay.
Anybody have a Deckel/Alexadria single lip cutter grinder (my favorite machine in the whole wide world) with a drill sharpening attachment? Seen it in the book years ago, but never used one.

sorry not time for downloads, gotta hand sharpen some carbide spade drills for 40+yr old face brick. Fucken shit is like glass! Damn who needs an outside spicket anyway, carry 5gal buckets outa the basement sink for wartering/carwashing <g> good exersise, but ya need 2 to balance the load. =============================Yeah, but one bucket works yer various abdominals (transverse) and obliques *much* more effectively. Two buckets just loads the shit out of yer spine. But true, you are balanced.
One 5 gal bucket of water is just about 40 lbs. The buckets of dirt'n'shit I haul are 60 and 80 lbs. Thank god fer dollies. :)
"Machine yer way to better Abs", eh?
--

Mr. PV'd

Mae West (yer fav CongressShill) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
  Click to see the full signature.
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wrote:

membership is free! their maybe some charter memebers still here!

You m,ight be right, I think for a touch-up it might be like 30 secs. been there done it. with my eye closed. simple is ALWAYS the best. My 7yr old niece could use this & get good results. ITS A DRILL NOT A JIG GRINDER http://www.drill-grinder.com

Ya Ya, mine exec/vp is sviss. so is my interapid, etalon
ya no the swiss&germans, they make good $$stuff$$,(vince sham-wow) Herrmann has 10 ultrasonic apps on the new Mercedes E class

anybody still use the drill protractor gauge? I do, be lost w/o it on big drills.
******* I do. I worked right next to a drill sharpener, and I'll admit, it was neat. But damn, if the drills aren't abused, it takes just a few seconds to dust em off in a pedastal grinder, check em with a protractor drill gage, drills perfect in just 10-20 seconds time invested. I would suggest no matter what you use, scrape the edge with a penny. It kinda hones the edge making the drill last forever. I think that's more important than spending 1500 bucks to sharpen a drill. And don't use cheap drills. A good set of latrobe's will never need sharpening. You could drill 1000 holes thru stainless in a good drill and it not need sharpened. If drill sharpening is a big part of your life and your not drilling titanium...???You might be a rednek. lol
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