Tool suggestions

I'd like to buy a good set of taps and dies and a drill index from 1/8" to 1/2".
I see drill sets all the time (with carrying case) that are about $9.99 for
a thousand or so drills. They can't be very good. Same thing about taps.
Northern Tools? McMaster Carr? Or do they have various levels of quality? Good brand name suggestions.
I figure this is going to cost a bit, but I'm tired of buying bits, and I haven't learned to use my new Drill Doctor 750 yet. I must have a hundred dull bits, and you can buy them at yard sales for a dime if you want to sharpen them, although many times, they are already sharp.
Steve
PS: Tried the Cc thing on the second newsgroup, but it wouldn't take it.
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<snip>
Nachi, Greenfield, Cleveland.
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On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:19:56 GMT, "Tom Gardner"

=================If you do this you will wind up with a large number of taps and drills that you will never use.
As an alternative think about the threads you use for the projects you work on and purchase only these taps and drills.
I suggest using screw machine length drills as the jobber length drills will require you to run the drill head up and down to change between the spotting drill, the tap drill, the body drill, and the tap thus losing position.
Basically you will need a spotting drill [not center drill] to start & locate the hole. Again get one about the same length as your taps and screw machine length drills for the sizes you use. One of these should cover a range of tap sizes.
A tap drill for 75% depth of thread [in many cases this will not be a fractional size, but a number or letter drill]
A body drill both for providing clearance for the screw in the mating part and to drill a slight counter bore so act as a guide or lead in, and to make sure any burr that you kick up when tapping or when you pull the thread when tightening is below the surface.
I find that while the cobalt drills are harder and would last longer in a production environment, they are also more brittle and prone to chip/break in the home shop environment. They also cost more and are harder to sharpen. Black oxide and bright finish HSS should be adequate. If you use the spotting drill the drills with the 135 degree split point are the ones to get. These provide less end thrust [force required to drill] and also have less tendency to walk.
Several taps for each thread.
I suggest a taper gun tap for through holes as these are the easiest to start and the chips clear the tap very well. Be sure to brush the chips off the tap that extends through the part before you back the tap out as these may jam or damage the thread. [buy two, their cheap]
For blind holes I suggest starting with a taper tap as this is easiest to start, and then switching to a plug or bottoming tap depending how close to the bottom of the hole you need the threads. FWIW- I find that drywall screws make good tools to extract the chips.
Another trick for blind holes is to use a stick type tap lube and fill the hole. Then as the tap goes into the hole, the tap lube squirts back out and takes the chips with it as well as providing lubrication. In a pinch bar soap or lard/crisco will also work.
If you have a thick part, try not to tap more than about 1-1/2 to 2 diameters deep. That is a 1/4 tap should not go over 3/8 to a 1/2 inch deep. The threads that the tap generate and the tap threads are not a perfect match and excessively long engagement is likely to jam or break the tap. This is where the body drill comes in. Simply body drill the hole deep enough so that you only tap 1-1/2 to 2 diameters. You can drill from either side but maximum assembly strength will be obtained with the longest length screw and the maximum stretch. This is particularly important for the smaller sizes [#10 and down]
I find that the 20 round plastic ammo boxes that re loaders use make good containers to keep the taps and drills together but protected. Most HF stores have these in a verity of sizes, or sporting goods store that sells reloading supplies should have these in stock.
A black sharpie pin is also handy for marking the required depths on the taps and drills.
Many tapping/drilling problems in the home shop can be traced to a worn out drill chuck. If your chuck is not in good shape, you can get a good china import for c.20$US with the mounting shank from wholesale tool, enco, HF and a bunch more. Note that for tapping a key operated chuck is better then the albrecht style.
Some good liquid tap lube and possibly stick for blind holes is also a requirement. (WD40 spray won't cut it and will make a mess.)
Good luck and let the group know how you make out. If you have questions or problems locating this stuff, post to the ng.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------ Watch out w'en you'er gittin all you want. Fattenin' hogs ain't in luck.
Joel Chandler Harris (1848-1908), U.S. journalist. Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings, "Plantation Proverbs" (1880).
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Let me know if you want to sell your dull drill bits Steve. That Drill Doctor that you have is a great machine!!1 All McMaster drills are very good, but very pricey for occasional use. I bought some taps from them also, those are very good quality (tin coated).
i

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I got a Drill Doctor about a year ago. Brought it home and couldn't get it to sharpen a drill bit to save my sole. Wrote it off as a bad investment, put it away and forgot about it. About a week ago, I needed a 1/2" bit and all that I had were dull. I dragged out the Drill Dr., re-read the instructions and tried to sharpen one of the dull bits. To my surprise, it came out very sharp!. Don't know what I was doing wrong before, but it works great now. Don't give up on yours, if you've got a bunch of dull bits. They do work.

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I had the same problem until I saw the video.
i

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I used to work conventions. We had one, and Drill Doctor was there. They had a show special of the 750 for $100. I had to have one. I got it and never used it. I am going to have the time soon, hopefully, to get it out of the box and plug it in and see what it will do. I think it will do okay.
Steve
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I sharpen all my by hand with a bench grinder (fine/smooth stone). (and have done so for 35 years)
I learned by getting a box of dull bits, looking ant the bit of a sharp bit and duplicating that. Test your bit by twisting it into a piece of wood. If it works, you're right on.
I start with the flukes horizontal, and then I drop the other end as I rotate the drill 120 degs. Dipping in water between cuts. Don't overheat the point.
The do the other half.
Patrick

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"Patrick" <Welding at Hill-Family dot US NOSPAM> wrote in message

My dad was a machinist. He was also a flight engineer on WW II bombers in the South Pacific. Many a time I would see him take out about a three square inch whetstone and with a few twists sharpen a drill bit in a very short time.
Steve
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Don't get the Hanson 24606 set, it is expensive and not as good as the pay'n pak $5 set I got in the 1970s.
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    Note that if you want a *full* set of taps and dies, you will want more than just the fractional drills (which I think would be from 1/16" to 1/2", not just 1/8" to 1/2". Many of the smaller taps will require a number size drill to produce the tap hole, and larger ones may want fractional or letter size. As an example, the recommended tap drill for 1/4-20 is a No. 7 bit, not a fractional one. The smaller the tap, the less the chance that a fractional drill size will be right for the tap drill. And -- for those smaller ones, the clearance hole is also likely to be a number size bit, not a fractional size one.

    Agreed there. :-)

    They have various levels -- as does MSC. I bought from MSC, several years ago, the 115 piece drill bit set which combines fractional, number, and letter drills. I opted for the "Made in USA" ones, rather than the imports. (The Made in USA ones also had the index by Huot, which is much better than the import ones.
    If I were flush, I would go for Cleveland, cobalt steel, with split points, and probably (for most things) screw machine length instead of the usual jobber length. (I did buy a number size set to those characteristics.)

    IIRC, the 115 piece set was about $118.00 back when I got it. The Cleveland set would be over $260.00 I think.
    As for taps -- I usually just buy spiral point "gun" taps for tapping through holes without having to back up frequently. (The spiral points chase the chips ahead of the tap, instead of letting them build up in the flutes.) There are also spiral flute taps, which push the chips back out the hole the tap came into when you are tapping blind holes.
    But I also got a really nice TRW set of taps and dies from an eBay auction. Very few of them had even been used, and each one had all three taps (starting, plug, and bottoming) plus the die -- from 0-80 through 1"-8. (There was one size which was skipped in the set -- I would have to go down and look at it to see what is missing, but it is likely to be an uncommon size like #14. :-) I got it for something like $100.00, because the vendor, while he described the set clearly, did not bother to post a photo.

    Learn to use the Drill Doctor -- but beware of drill bits with an uncommon spiral -- either faster or slower than the common ones, because it can confuse the flute setting stage of the Drill Doctor's operation.

    You mean cross posting? Both newsgroups are in the "Newsgroups: " header, so I believe that it did work.
    Good Luck,         DoN.
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I never would have imagined that you were one of "THOSE" people....shame!
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    It is a quick way to get a reasonable (if not pretty) point on the larger drills.
    For the smaller ones -- 1/4" down through #70 -- I have an interesting drill sharpener once made by DuMore, but now abandoned. It makes a much prettier point -- though what I really want is something which can do a good job of splitting points. The older Drill Doctor sort of works for larger drills, but not for the smaller ones which I more often want to have split points.
    Yes -- I *should* mount my 8" bench grinder on a proper post and teach myself to hand grind the larger bits -- following Teenut's wonderful article on the subject. I still miss him.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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I do my split points by hand too, but only on larger drills. I don't try to sharpen drills much smaller than 1/8, they just go into the trash. is there a Drill Doctor that does a good job on small drills?
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Split points are relatively easy to accomplish. Take any old twist drill, and grind the "back flats" on the trailing side of the flutes first, using a split point drill as a visual reference. Then the point is ground normally, which creates the cutting "teeth" of the split point style twist drill.
Here is a method of utilizing the arc sweeping type sharpening fixture http://neme-s.org/NEMES_2005/NEMES_2005_16.htm
The bottom of this page shows a holder for small drills http://www.metal-club.org/john%27s_project.html
WB metalworking projects http://www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html ...........
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WB, thanks, nice picture. Bill Noble sold me a thing like this a while ago, I will try to use it one day (no urgent since I have a DD).
i

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    getting all flutes to meet truly in the center is the tricky part, I would think.

    Hmm ... the DuMore drill grinder can be thought of as a arc sweeping type turned on its side. The drill bit is held in a 3-jaw chuck, and the tip protrudes through a collet to give sufficient support even with #70 drill bits. A magnifier and mirror are used for aligning the flutes properly. It produces a beautiful tip.

    Neat. Is that a ball bearing assembly adjacent to the drill bit being sharpened?
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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Don, it doesn't appear to be a ball bearing assembly on that drill holder. The head of the center bolt has a washer located beside it which makes it look wider in the lower left image.
Locating (and grinding with respect to) the thinnest portion of the center web is an important aspect of grinding or resharpening drills. Without split points, it's usually desireable to have the chisel edge formed at the web to be as narrow as possible, since the chisel will be displacing (not cutting) the workpiece material.
The force required to displace material (particularly in metal) is greater with conventional drill points. With split points, the drill starts cutting material as soon as it touches the surface of the workpiece. Additionally, split points are less likely to skate away from the point of contact.
I've seen some new drills ground with split points, where the cutting faces were ground as two flat facets, rather than being gradually relieved in an arc. I don't know the reason for that type of grind, but they cut with what seems like significantly less effort.
WB metalworking projects http://www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html ...........
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Wild Bill wrote:

Google for 4 facet drill grind, and 6 facet drill grind.
Dead easy to grind the angles, set and forget the tooling (or at least set up and index quickly from one angle to the other) on pretty basic grinding equipment.
Cheers Trevor Jones
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Thanks Trevor, I skimmed over some of the info and saw 10 and 30 degrees mentioned one place for 4 facet grinding.
WB metalworking projects http://www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html ...........

faces
an
what
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