Coolant Question

Where do you get your water to mix with it? The city water here in Allentown is normally from the river but they do use well, or spring water sometimes depending on conditions. Like salt runoff from roadways.

Just a thought. Call the water co and see if they used any differant treatment methods lately. Thank You, Randy

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Got an air stone running in the coolant tanks?

Gunner

Foaming is usually caused by water that is for some reason too soft, usually adding very small amount of calcium carbonate will remedy the problem.

Kirk, I use Blaser Universal 2000 without problems. I can't remember the last time I did a complete change of coolant. I had a foaming problem and my Blaser rep. switched me to a soft water version of the Universal 2000, not sure if that's available in Vasco 1000. I also use a way lube that has a very low sulpher content, sulpher being one of the things that bacteria like to feed on.

I've also found my Blaser rep to be very knowledgeable about coolant. I would recommend that you give him a call and get him involved.

Best, Steve

Thanks for the responses so far. Here's some additional info:

We use well water, seriously hard with both calcium and magnesium. (I thought about that for the foaming, since I have a well and water softener at home, and I know how that works.)

I hadn't thought about sulfur content in the water, though. Worth checking out.

I've talked often to our local rep, and even had a Blaser factory chemist in the building to take samples of the water, the bad coolant, fresh coolant after cleaning and refill, etc.. The analyses comes back fine with the water and fresh stuff; but the tests on the bad coolant look like it came from a very old and nasty sewer. We've cleaned the tanks with VascoClean, and used the prescribed fungicide treatments; but those don't seem to slow things down even a bit.

Fungus seems to be the biggest issue. When we clean tanks, we take things out of them that smell like moose shit and look/feel like slimy rubber fish. And it grows on every surface in the machines, if we get behind by even a day. I personally trained and supervise daily the crew that skims tramp oil off the tanks, and tops them off. Concentration is well controlled, and (though I can't swear it doesn't happen) I have no reason to supsect sabotage, or that someone on second shift is "fixing" things his own way.

I've never heard of an air stone, Gunner. You know a secret that I don't?

KG

Get an air regulator mounted at each coolant tank and put in one of the bigger aireators used to supply fish tanks with air..one of those stones you see hooked to the air hose in fish tanks, and let it bubble. Most of the spooge is anerobic...grows without air..and the bubbling oxygenizes the coolant and kills its growth. Often times quite dramatically.

As a cheap test, pick up a cheap fish tank air pump and set it up in one tank.

Gunner

Kirk:

Here's the relevant portion of a post I made in 2006:

============================================================ We used to use disk and belt skimmers, and IMO they worked "reasonably" well. We also had aquarium bubblers to aerate the coolant. But the coolant was sometimes going bad in one machine or another anyway. We now use in-house made valved bubblers that are fed from the air compressor. Much higher volume air flow than the aquarium bubblers we had. We also now have a "Keller" type unit. It looks surpassingly like the Keller model #315 shown at the site below, and very well may be that unit. They move it around from one machine to another at night. The rancidity problem has been appreciably reduced. Is it worth the money? Well I think that would depend on many factors, number of machines, type of coolant used, materials machined, etc. Synthetics and semi-synthetics don't seem to have as severe a problem with rancidity as do the non-synthetics, but IMO the synthetics don't seem to have the "lubricity" for machining the more difficult materials that the non-synthetics have. The Keller type unit seems to work well for us (10 machines, Hangsterfers S500, alum/stainless/titanium/brass/inconel/plastics/kovar/etc. etc.) BTW the air driven unit DOES make noise when in operation that can be irritating to many.

We also flushed out all the old rancid coolant with baking soda mixed with something else, and hosed down the inside of the machine real good. You could call Blaser and ask what they recommend for a flushing medium. Be sure to turn your coolant pump on to flush out all the bad coolant in the lines or it will immediately contaminate your new coolant. Also, if you have through the spindle coolant you need to run that pump too and run the flushing liquid through the spindle. We always made up our coolant on the heavy percentage side on the refractometer.

Has anyone tried an Ozone Generator?

Tom

Tom:

Now there's an idea. Let's see what Wik has to say:

========================================================

======================================================== Ozone will oxidize metals (except gold, platinum, and iridium) to oxides of the metals in their highest oxidation state:

Sulfuric acid can be produced from ozone, starting either from elemental sulfur or from sulfur dioxide.

Ozone gas attacks any polymer possessing olefinic or double bonds within its chain structure, such materials including natural rubber, nitrile rubber, and Styrene-butadiene rubber. ========================================================

Dont want to cause any alarm, but,,,,,,, was working in chucker dept many yrs ago, looked to my right one night to see the next guy over,,,,,,,,, SPITTING in the machine, seems he didnt want to spit in a cup or on the floor, never touched that machine again!! Unfortunatly for him, some weeks later he tried to stabilize a 3/16 bar hanging out the back of the spindle at 2000 rpm, but that is a different story, needless to say, after cleaning and changing the oil in that machine, it seemed to cut better!

Might want to check other shifts for bipolar bears or other grumps.

Try the aireator, like "stitches" said earlier, it will keep the bugs at bay by putting oxy in the coolant.

"D"

Good thoughts from both sides. I have an ozone generator in my Jacuzzi, for the exact purpose discussed here. It kills anaerobic microbes. But, as mentioned in the Wiki article, it turns the (partially) nitrile rubber in the hoze connected to it, and the plastic check valve conntected to that, into nitric acid. I replace both roughly twice a year, just before they're completely eaten. The mfr. of the ozone generator clearly and loudly warns that I need good gloves to service these things, so the acid doesn't eat me, along with the plastic and rubber.

I'm still liking the fish tank idea, though. Tomorrow, I'll see if I can just drill up a little manifold with a bunch of small holes, a flow valve, and connect that to a shop air hose. Our Blazer rep is comming by in the morning. He's convinced the plant manager that our first fill of the unadulterated tank on a brand new machine should have the coolant mixed with deionized (soft) water, which we make in the plant for certain parts cleaning applications. I've advised against this, fearing that we'll foam up the whole county as soon as the pumps start; but I may get over-ruled.

I'll post more tomorrow, if I don't get swallowed by a giant suds-monster.

Thanks again for all the input!

KG

Full synthetic coolants far outperform oil based (petroleum or soy) in both cutting and sump life in my experience regardless of how well, or not, they're maintained.

Plus synthetics get a nod for not attacking my psoriasis like oil based coolants do. Blasers and Trim (raw sewage would be better than Trim!) were the worst I've ever used.

Company I'm with now was using Valenite ValCool 940 until Valenite dropped it. We're now using Wallover WS8035 which costs less than Valcool 940 did and out performs it.

My $.02.

Kirk Gordon wrote: Our Blazer rep is comming

Kirk, Most coolant makers like DI water:

Water-quality control. Fungi feed on dissolved minerals in water. Controlling the mineral content of the water used for metalworking fluids can control fungi growth.

Best, Steve

Kirk, I emailed a .pdf file with the subject "Maintaining Metalworking Fluids" to the email that you post to the group with.

Just letting you know in case it gets trapped in a spam filter.

Best, Steve

Kirk, Email bounced, mine is valid and I will send the pdf file if you email me a valid email address.

Best, Steve

Dear Kirk Gordon:

On Feb 9, 9:04=A0pm, Kirk Gordon wrote: ...

... it kills *all* microbes.

No, it oxidizes them, and destroys the plasticizers. Ozone made in air, involves making some "fuming nitric acid", the exact amounts being controlled by the humidity in the feed gas. The bigger commerical ozone generators use air dryed to 1 ppm or less (dewpoint

-60=B0F or lower).

Clear PVC tubing will last longer, teflon will last "forever". Check valves available with stainless steel and teflon construction.

And now you know why they say this *regardless* of what you hook it up with.

A small dose of ozone added to the coolant tank might not hurt, since the contents of the tank will degrade the ozone to non-detect. But if straight aeration does the trick, and manages to keep the reservoir from sucking in crap when it cools, then that is what you should do. Make sure the place you draw the air from (either way) is air that is clean and filtered... otherwise you'll just infect the tank with aerobic stuff that will do things you don't want done either.

David A. Smith

Kirk Gordon wrote in news:4990FCD8.50808@gordon- eng2.com:

Kirk,

At one time we used the flow control valve deal. We are in a situation where machines often sit in the showroom for extended periods of time unused. It works well on anaerobic bacteria if that is the problem.

We also had hard water and build up of mineral salts was a problem too. The De-I water fixes that issue.

Another issue is the tramp oil. Certain brands mixed with certain coolants makes loads of foam no matter what else you do.

Nowadays we try to use neat oil. Vegetable oil based to be exact. Blaser Vascomill 11 or 22 works very well with high pressure coolant but it is expen$ive as all get out. But it performs very well even at higher temperatures.

Black Dragon wrote in news:gms5eh$2h64$ snipped-for-privacy@bdhi.local:

If I get trim on my hands, within an hour or so it looks like I have minor chemical burns. Hangsterfers water soluble is the foamiest crap I've ever seen, though it doesn't bother my skin near as bad as Trim.

Straight synthetics are great, but they are basically detergents and as soon as they get by a seal the bearings, ways, etc are toast. So keeping an eye on lube lines, seals, way wipers on a regular basis is a must.