Metal Finishing Questions



On reread tonight I see wasn't complete enough in my description. So I'll try again:
What I'm asking you to do is put a bunch of points on the screen at the *same Z level* and then describe step by step how you would drill these holes at *different diameters and different Z depths using the same tool* in Cimatron. Despite what's been posted by a lying putz who really doesn’t know the software he says he's used for many years, Mastercam can't do this with the same tool and without the geometry existing at the correct Z depth, which is often not feasible. What Mastercam does is load up the Machining Operation Manager with many operations where there should be one Machining Operation or it forces you to use the "Change At Point" interface which is impractical to manage and most experienced Mastercam users refuse to use it (The Change At Point interface). How would Cimatron handle this? How are different Z depths entered on the fly and when you wish to go back and edit? What does Cimatron present you with for an interface while doing this?
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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wrote:

Kerosene burns the shit out of your hands on contact. Jet fuel is hard to get. And personally, Id do it dry for a bunch of reasons. One is it will remove stock to fast using oil. Another is the mess. Another is its too hard to keep it clean from a piece of grit making a new scratch. But mostly the mess it will make. Demag the part first so nothing will stick to it, blow it off real good. Keep the surface plate spotless and dry, wipe it with your hand before putting the sand paper down to really clean the plate of dust or grits. Rub the back of the paper on a pantleg to make sure there's no grit particles. And use that piece of 600 paper forever. The more it wears the better it will work. If its too new it tends to shine the edges giving a rounded off edge visual effect. The trick is to keep the paper flat. Personally, I'd do that to everything I ground to kinda seal the surface as I ground it unless the size of the part kept me from doing that. It's not polishing, it's more of a deburring process. Your deburring the ground surface.
Now beer might help a bit, but only if you drink it.
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Kerosene *is* jet fuel.

I'll print this and your other post out and follow it to the letter.

Move out of the "s" hole state you live in now.
Find a very successful high tech company to work for in a non-right to starve state and...
I'll have that beer but not until then.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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Kerosene is one of the ingredients in JP8, AKA JET-A. Others are naptha based.
<<Snip>>
Later,
Charlie
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wrote:

After the dumb shit I experienced today I am ready to move. I applied at this sheet metal shop. I don't do sheet metal because the pay sux, but where I live it's 70% sheet metal, between stamping and aircraft. I figured I'd do this job on nights for a while, what the hell, get some new experiences. I live cheap, I can handle a month or two of crap wages. A little humilty is always a good thing. So I apply, and I get an interview across town. I go and wait, and wait, and wait, jeesh. Finally I get interviewed. He has my resume, I posted it online for his reading pleasure, but yet still asks me what skills I have? So after 20 mins he says but can you run a break press. I said no. Can you run a punch press...yes. Then he says well I don't know, your skills are kinda limited, maybe we can train you? Gives me a written test. Basically mark off on a picture of a ruler things like 3/8...1/2, etc... Then says well I think maybe we can train you, come to the other side of town and I'll give you another written test, next week. Damn. So I go. And he hands me a box of square sheetmetal stampings, calipers, a protractor and a fractional ruler. And gives me this test, measure this, measure that, it was insultingly lame. One of the questions was "is sample B square". I checked it, it was like 2 degrees on the protractor. Not square. Guy says you missed one, but it's ok, you don't know about sheet metal. Of course I said it's out of square unless you give me a tolerance. I wrote 2 degrees on the paper. 2 degrees out of square is a lot for a rock created by erosion! I was nice, but inside I was screaming. That impressed him enough to hire me. So he says you can start next week, 37 hrs a week nightshift, no differential, 9 bucks an hr, no benefits. The job is literally standing in front of a cnc press, and taking the punched part and hitting it with a rubber mallet to knock out the parts. It's like 110 degrees. No ac. NO AC! It's FLORIDA! I bet it was 95 degrees in the shade today!
So I came home and literally went to the wallmart site and they are paying 9.75 with benefits and AC!
This might be it for me and Florida.
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Why is your self worth so low that you are applying for this crappy job working in a "s" hole to begin with?
Why are you not willing to recognize that manufacturing in this country is in serious trouble and that you aren't going to change the way things are?
What is wrong with working for a non-traditional company where machining isn't their main focus and instead the focus is on patents and licensing technology to partners?
What is wrong with going to Monster and finding the high tech companies like those providing highly advanced medical implants / processes and sending your resume in?
A good part of being successful in the machining business is knowing and understanding the market as well as really knowing how to market yourself.
Some machinists like the one who has well over twenty years of experience and works for a boss who thinks he got a deal at an auction buying cheap Chinese Kurt knock off vises and only makes $23 an hour will never have a clue and will retire clueless about how to market themselves and where the real opportunities to make money in this business are.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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Why is your self worth so low that you are applying for this crappy job working in a "s" hole to begin with?
********** Uhhh, being unemployed is a scary thing man, and it takes time to land a decent job. So my usual plan of attack is get something to get you thru. *******
Why are you not willing to recognize that manufacturing in this country is in serious trouble and that you aren't going to change the way things are?
********** Iv'e recocnized this years ago. American Manufacturing got the last coffin nail on 9-11. It's been limping along ever since. **********
What is wrong with working for a non-traditional company where machining isn't their main focus and instead the focus is on patents and licensing technology to partners?
********* nothing is wrong with that. *********
What is wrong with going to Monster and finding the high tech companies like those providing highly advanced medical implants / processes and sending your resume in?
*********** Iv'e been doing that. But those kinds of jobs take a long time to secure, especially when it's not in person. What do you do in the meantime? Live with your parents? Considering mine are dead.... **********
A good part of being successful in the machining business is knowing and understanding the market as well as really knowing how to market yourself.
************ Couldn't agree more. Skills don't mean a whole lot in a vacumme. And for me this has been a learning process. What I was doing a few weeks ago seems silly to me now. I was an infant at marketing myself, I feel I have now graduated to the second grade. This is something I should of been doing consistantly since I got out of school. I concentrated on only massing skills, and left behind social and marketing skills. That was then....this is now. Everything has changed. And that's why I didn't take that ridiculous job.
My new motto is grow up and act your Wage. *************
Some machinists like the one who has well over twenty years of experience and works for a boss who thinks he got a deal at an auction buying cheap Chinese Kurt knock off vises and only makes $23 an hour will never have a clue and will retire clueless about how to market themselves and where the real opportunities to make money in this business are.
*********** Well in all fairness toolmakers don't usually go to collage. I made up my resume and was real proud of it, so I showed it to my educated kid and she laughed at it. I am ready to admit I am clueless in this area, but one thing toolmakers are good at is "adaptability". And trust me, I am adapting. My Resume is no longer a lauging matter. My mistake was not being prepared. Not doing in my Career what I preach in the shop, Constant Improvement. Every job is just another ladder step. Ladders go up or down. Not sideways.
I hear your point, and I don't disagree. ************
However, the 23hr is a moot point. It's a relative number. I have realized though if I make 10 bucks an hour in a shop...I am a scab. And that won't be happening. ***********
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
One thing, I don't feel emailing resume's is such a good idea. I'd suggest snail mail as opposed to email. I'm afraid there's inboxes full of resumes in every buisiness.
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Have you sent your resume / applied on-line to Boeing in WA?

How much searching and applying on-line for jobs in other states have you done?

Is there some reason you can't interview in another state if they want to meet and talk with you?
********

See above

Okay.
You would be better off washing dishes than taking a job like the one you described.
If you fill out an on-line application for a big company in another state you need to push for an interview and find a way to show up in person and interview them to see if you might be a good fit and if you can help them. Play hard to get... it works.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:38:08 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Good advise Jon, get the guy to move across country and go to work for a company that has been laying people off all year, 1,100 last month alone in WA.
Even if a job was open at Boeing he would be a union employee meaning last hired first fired.....why not recommend he move to Detroit and get a job in the auto industry?
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz
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wrote:

I applied to lockheed, and got a good responce. Starting pay 15.75 hr. no matter what you know. That's insane. That should be minimum wage these days lol
Hopefully I will end up building molds again, I love building inside out upside down high tol stuff.
I will say this, cutting lawns has woke me up. I feel alive again (and sunburned as hell).
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And I'll bet their management is complaining there is a shortage of good machinists.
Less than a year ago Jon was still claiming there is a shortage of Machinists in San Diego. I said I never had a hard time finding and hiring good machinists in San Diego. I pointed out it was more likely a shortage of machinists willing to work for operator wages.
And guess what, now Jon calls those wages paying $5.00-$7.00 per hour more "Coolie Wages" for machinists......LOL....
http://tinyurl.com/oyrpo3
[ There is a shortage of machinists here despite the total B.S. and lies that Tom Brewer has posted to the contrary. ] Jon-clueless-Banquer Aug-2008
http://tinyurl.com/oxqxz4
[ Jon posted that these guys complaining about a shortage of machinists in San Diego were offering between $17-$19 per hour. So I asked Jon what he felt the going rate for a Journeyman Machinists in San Diego is. Of course Jon never answered because it would prove his previous statements wrong. ] brewertr June-2008
http://tinyurl.com/pvf9uq
[ Folks, we have a winner. Someone in this newsgroup who has clue when it comes to the mentality you need to get ahead in the machining job shop world rather than be stuck working for “coolie wages” making in the low twenty dollar rage after 20 or more years of dedication to machining. Just pathetic. ] Jon-the-Donk-Banquer, Dec-2008
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz
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wrote:

Have you sent your resume / applied on-line to Boeing in WA?

How much searching and applying on-line for jobs in other states have you done?

Is there some reason you can't interview in another state if they want to meet and talk with you?
********

See above

Okay.
You would be better off washing dishes than taking a job like the one you described.
If you fill out an on-line application for a big company in another state you need to push for an interview and find a way to show up in person and interview them to see if you might be a good fit and if you can help them. Play hard to get... it works.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
************ I got a job with a lawn service. I stopped looking for crap jobs. The lawnservice is old fashioned hard work for crap pay, and it's honest. Of course it's florida in the summer and im 42, so...... That aside I decided I do have skills people want and realized I need to give it time. It's paying off. The interviews are starting to roll in from awesome companies for awesome positions. We all need to live by the statement "act your wage".
However, I have a family and we are a democratic family, we all have a vote, even the kids. Simply sending resume's all over the country is not an option for me personally, but Iv'e sent resume's out as far as 100 miles and the results have been shocking.
I appreciate all the advice Iv'e been given. Soon I will be employed by a great place, but the marketing will never stop. Iv'e changed my attitude, and some bad habits, and am no longer asking for a job, I'm now offering my skills. A very different approach to what I was doing a month ago.
This has actually changed from fear to excitement. I'm not afraid of next week, I cant wait for it!
Again, thanks for the advice, from you and a bunch of others in here. It really made all the diff.
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Shocking in what way?
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Her parents should be prosecuted for raising a kid so painfully stupid.
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I'm typing this on my break in my office at work on Sunday. Worked 12 hours yesterday. We're very busy and have never slowed down. It helps that their is a very serious shortage of machinists in San Diego, CA.
Shortly after 9-11 I moved from Phoenix, Arizona to Tucson, Arizona and built race engines. I had never built race engines or done automotive machining prior to this. I did it for less money and it was well worth the experinece. I'd do something like this again in a heartbeat. You made the right move not going to work for that shop.
You need to get out of Florida and into a maket that badly needs machinists. Areas like San Diego, CA, Seattle, WA, etc. Stay out of the LA area! Mostly likely areas in northern, CA also will have good oppertunities. The problem is the cost of living. You find ways to deal with that / work around it.

Maybe you can live apart from your family till the job proves itself out?

It's a step in the right direction but it's still not good enough for me. ;>)

:>)
You welcome.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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On Sun, 17 May 2009 14:55:15 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Jon,
How is your being wrong and contradicting yourself somehow NOW make you right?
Unlike you Jon I have experience hiring machinists to work in San Diego and NEVER had a problem finding a good one. I also gave you hints by stating clearly your reported shortage is more likely a shortage of machinists willing to work for operator wages.
You said the business owners complaining to you were saying they couldn't find good machinists in San Diego for the $17.00-$19.00 an hour with no benefits. NOW you are calling $23.00 an hour with benefits "Coolie Wages".
Please show job listings for machinists going unfilled in San Diego, what pay & benefits package is being offered, something, anything to support your position other than "Someone" told you.
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz
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On May 17, 3:56 pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I love seeing Jon babble on about the "coolie wages" of $23.00/hr, when he was making $17 dollars an hour practically yesterday. It's just going to be that much more satisfying when he gets fired again.
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On Sun, 17 May 2009 14:55:15 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer

Jon,
How is your being wrong and contradicting yourself somehow NOW make you right?
Unlike you Jon I have experience hiring machinists to work in San Diego and NEVER had a problem finding a good one. I also gave you hints by stating clearly your reported shortage is more likely a shortage of machinists willing to work for operator wages.
You said the business owners complaining to you were saying they couldn't find good machinists in San Diego for the $17.00-$19.00 an hour with no benefits. NOW you are calling $23.00 an hour with benefits "Coolie Wages".
Please show job listings for machinists going unfilled in San Diego, what pay & benefits package is being offered, something, anything to support your position other than "Someone" told you.
-- Tom http://tinyurl.com/5okkgz
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On May 10, 3:36 am, snipped-for-privacy@cin.net wrote: <<Snip>>

<<Snip>>
That works, but water works, too. And when your done, you don't stink like kerosene. At least with aluminum. Steel needs something to prevent the rust.
Later,
Charlie
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Specific, to the point and very helpful to me. I'll try this process today. It's a hardened piece.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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