Protecting Our Jobs

I don't actually know; but I'm gonna take an "educated guess." And I'm guessing they're extremely profitable, precisely BECAUSE they're in Brazil. And those other facilities in Eastern Europe are probably all gold mines too, as long as you live somewhere else, and have your profits wired to your home in the West.

There are others here, I'm sure, who are old enough to remember when Pittsburg smelled like sulfer, even if you were 50 miles away. And when the Rouge River, and Zug Island, in Detroit, were so fowl that dioxins didn't want to live there. And when the visibility in Gary Indiana was measured in feet, rather than miles. And the air in Cincinatti was a perpetual pink color. And Lake Erie was the world's largest septic tank, and Cleveland and Toledo were awful. And more.

And nobody spent a penny on anything that wasn't profitable in the very, VERY short term. The future didn't matter. Even people who were sick and dying in the present weren't really a problem, as long as they didn't have lawyers, and didn't live right next door to the folks who collected the profits.

And I'm guessing that that's the way mills in Brazil, and the Eastern Bloc, are still running today. We certainly saw plenty of that when the Iron Curtain rotted away, and Western folks got their first good look inside the sewer we once called the Soviet Union.

I bet I could build a world class, major size, seriously profitable steel mill right here in Philadelphia, if all I cared about was making profits right now. I'd recruit strong-shouldered kids right out of junior high (so they wouldn't finish high school and have any real prospects besides working for me). And I'd let them live in company dormitories - free rent, and free meals at the employee's cafeteria, so I wouldn't have to pay them real wages. And there's a million cubic miles of coal, in the mountains just west of here. I could build a short, private railroad, and get all I needed, cheap. Then I could run coke ovens and blast-furnaces with raw smoke and soot pouring out of the stacks, and I could turn Jersey black with smog. I'd bring ore up the Delaware River in iron boats from all over the world, and I'd dump crud and pollution by the megaton right back into that very same water. I'd buy a big chunk of land where the city is currently planning to build high-end riverfront housing, and I'd use it to store huge mountains of scrap steel, for recycling and making cheap alloys. I'd run the mills all day, and all night, and I'd expect every furnace to produce at capacity, or the bastard in charge of it would be unemployed before the next heat had cooled.

And I'd sell low-cost, decent quality steel to buyers on five continents; and I'd make money that people in Brazil and Poland wouldn't believe. And I'd live 20 miles from the mills, upwind, in the tree-covered hills near Valley Forge. And I'd go down in history as a wealthy man, revered by my peers for creating jobs, and for supporting the arts, and for appearing in so many newspaper photographs with well-known politicians and movie stars.

And every sane person on Earth would hate me, for very, VERY good reasons.

I really, REALLY abhor short-term thinking. Humans are capable of more, and better.

KG

Reply to
Kirk Gordon
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Bob,

Might just as well post it online...............

Ya want some names???--(I really dont care anymores, as they all seem to be deadbeats these days).

But I'm gonna hold back, suggest you should go first....

Reply to
PrecisionMachinisT

SVL:

No, I'm not going to do that.

-- BottleBob

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Reply to
BottleBob

Nor am I, even though there are several that I'm dissapointed with at present.

I spose its not a matter of who it was that took away all the good customers--more so, it's a question of why have so many of the good ones gone bad, no ???

Reply to
PrecisionMachinisT

Oh-oh. Kirk's starting to sound like a goddamned tree-hugging Liberal ....

Reply to
hamei

ten bucks says it's Haas. Slimy little bottom-feeders that they are ....

Reply to
hamei

guessing they're extremely profitable, precisely

probably all gold mines too, as long as you live

Pittsburg smelled like sulfer, even if you were 50 miles

dioxins didn't want to live there. And when the

air in Cincinatti was a perpetual pink color. And

awful. And more.

VERY short term. The future didn't matter. Even

long as they didn't have lawyers, and didn't live right

are still running today. We certainly saw plenty

good look inside the sewer we once called the Soviet

mill right here in Philadelphia, if all I cared about

junior high (so they wouldn't finish high school

company dormitories - free rent, and free meals at

there's a million cubic miles of coal, in the mountains

needed, cheap. Then I could run coke ovens and

turn Jersey black with smog. I'd bring ore up the

pollution by the megaton right back into that very

to build high-end riverfront housing, and I'd use it

I'd run the mills all day, and all night, and I'd

would be unemployed before the next heat had cooled.

and I'd make money that people in Brazil and Poland

tree-covered hills near Valley Forge. And I'd go down in

supporting the arts, and for appearing in so many

Did you know that US iron ore mines are refining from low-grade ore ?

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Why transport all that iron ore to the mine Kirk, why not build your mill in Brazil to start with ?

One of the expenses added to US Steel making has to do with refining then converting the taconite into iron ore which are found in mines of N. MN. (coincidentally when I was a kid, these pellets make great ammo for slingshots).

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There are quite some energy demand to convert a *low grade* taconite to refine it the higher grade iron ore, not to mention shipping it through the channels of the great lakes then onto harbors to reach Gordon Steel.

Recently a Chinese company purchased a big mine in Northern MN, as to what they will do differently at the closed up Kirk mine that US engineers and MBA's and Kirk Gordon couldn't figure out when he was trying to figure out union costs?

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It sort of reminds us of a movie years ago called "Gung Ho"

Plot Outline: When a Japanese car company buys an American plant, the American liaison must mediate the clash of work attitudes between the foreign management and native labor.

FYI: Brazil already has high-grade iron ore straight out of the earth Kirk, little need is there to pollute the atmosphere further compared to mine in MN when it is high grade ore to start with, but is it the only thing that will keep costs down ?.

Strategic alliances between Brazil and US steel makers should have been met decades ago when regulations in the US got tighter, afterall our remember our iron ore was low-grade anyway. Now that the future demand for steel is high due in part to China and third world countries in asia stabilizating this will further increase the demand for steel and the remainder gets imported to the US at dirt cheap prices.

The future of steel looks very bright indeed Kirk, as a matter of fact, Mittal has recently purchased an US steel mill. Where have the US investors been hiding in what is now the highest demand for Steel products in decades ?

Look at these pages Kirk there making money! and you can sit there and and tell me about saving the fish, wildlife, and the air we breath from evil polluters.

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Short-term thinking ahead, stop lets take a breather a few steps back and try to imagine a major distribution point, meanwhile, as the ozone gets thinner the third world is no longer in third place and the only mass produced item from sea to shining sea is pizzas!

Meanwhile as a small mine feeds into a small mill to supply the growing industry of small fabrication shops, these are spread out like islands between city to city, everywhere to keep our cities and bridges from rusting out.

My advice to shop owners is don't sell your shop quite yet, hold on a while longer, small part machining will only be one part of your business in the future, as steel conglomerates merge, deals will be struck and this will create a growing demand for unique bigger items which are fabricated inside what resembles much like a machine shop. In the near future there will be a very great need for large heavy precise steel products, so save your investment on new equipment and get into the growing field of large scale precise steel fabrication. Once these steel conglomerates align their capital, you will start to see some lucrative success by partnering into one of their channels just like node on a big network. More of your small machined parts will be outsourced to the third, but these big machined parts structural components will grow and grow straight up, IMHO.

John

Reply to
John Scheldroup

You read me wrong, John. I'm brining ore from anyplace on the planet where I can talk half-starved serfs into mining it cheap. It's the coal I'm getting from nearby. Pennsylvania has some serious, high quality anthracite deposits. And since I'll use more tons of coal than tons of iron ore, being close to the coal is better and cheaper.

KG

Reply to
Kirk Gordon

You read me wrong, John. I'm bringing ore from anyplace on the planet where I can talk half-starved serfs into mining it cheap. It's the coal I'm getting from nearby. Pennsylvania has some serious, high quality anthracite deposits. And since I'll use more tons of coal than tons of iron ore, being close to the coal is better and cheaper.

KG

Reply to
Kirk Gordon

where I can talk half-starved serfs into mining it

high quality anthracite deposits. And since I'll

and cheaper.

I agree then that you will have need for taconite from MN because you can get it at higher grade at less cost from Brazil.

The taconite railroads are in the family blood Kirk, good paying unionized jobs, mom was a secretary probably earned a hundred bucks a day back in 1977.

Dad punched iron ore - (shoveling-leveling) into ore carriers when he lied his age 14 not 18. The summers were hot and dusty and winters were

20-30 below zero. Dad helped support his big family recently immigrated, and warm clothing in the depression years were not provided on the job unless grandmother knitted them.

After ww2 he went to college got an accounting degree then he continued on the railroad but in an office. Job duties for managing the migration of taconite from rail to ship in a timely manner were high priority. Programming computer systems for the payroll was sort of my fathers specialty in the early 70's.

Grandfather was a self-taught telegraph operator, he traveled throughout the Midwest during the depression years, so long as he traveled where they wanted to put him, there was job security .

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COAL Brazil has considerable recoverable coal reserves of approximately

13.1 billion short tons, the second largest in the Western Hemisphere behind the United States. Coal, however, plays only a small role in Brazil's energy mix, accounting for just 5.2% of the country's total primary energy consumption in 2002.

Much of Brazil's coal is characterized by high ash and sulfur contents, as well as low caloric values. In 2002, Brazil's coal production was approximately 4.6 million short tons (Mmst), while consumption was an estimated 22.1 Mmst, with net imports of 17.5 Mmst. Most of domestic production is used for power generation, while imports are used for the country's steel making industry.

Brazil is attempting to reverse its status as a net importer of coal. According to reports, Brazil's national development bank, Banco Nacional de Desenvolvimento Economico e Social (BNDES), is developing a plan to expand the country's coal industry.

BNDES hopes that the proposed program will make Brazil self-sufficient in coal by 2010 and eventually a net exporter of coal.

Reply to
John Scheldroup

If you go back through the newsgroup postings you'll notice I don't get involved in wars. I'm the same way at work. What defuses a situation fast is to simply admit when you are wrong, and apologize. I think that works so well because people don't expect it, so they are left speechless.

Gary H. Lucas

Reply to
Gary H. Lucas

"John Scheldroup" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@individual.net:

I was reading the paper this morning and was thinking the same thing about large part manufacturing. Different reason though, the article was about a shortage of capacity in oil refining and transport. Should be a need for lots of big parts there.

Dan

Reply to
Dan Murphy

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