> To All:
> What's the most outrageous claim you've heard a tooling company, or
> machine tool builder make?
You mean besides Jon Banquer claiming tha he knows something about
CAD/CAM systems and machining? Hard to top that one.
Uh oh. My finely tuned whiskers detect an AutoCad flame in the
making, vibrating through the timeless ether.
But no, I was thinking about something along the lines of a MTB
claiming that holding a profile tolerance of .0002 while 3D profiling
at 1,400 IPM - or something to that effect.
firstname.lastname@example.org wrote in news:tqf0u41krklmi77pa6ke2omk1r0e3k96gk@
I've had several instances of that, unfortunatly. That MTB Salesman got
a royal chewing though. I'll not repeat it here, folks can look it up if
they want to read it.
Some other stuff I've not posted though.....
Another royal ass chewing came to a Keyance sensor salesman.
I was looking for a lower cost beam sensor. We had been using Banner OSPX
sensors, but at a bit over $300 each by the time it was ready to use ...I
couldn't use them on these projects. We had 100+ machines to do and at 3
sensors on each machine, the cost was too high. This kid came in spewing
all kinds of BS. Showing all this new stuff with features we _did not_
need. I told him we needed something price-comparable to the retro-
reflectives we were using @ $110 each. Said he'd price some stuff...
The cheapest thing he came back with was $280, still way out of the
So I finally squeezed on my Banner rep enough to get a cheaper model of
the OSPX type, for less than $100, armored fiber cables included.
The "kid" comes back in...couple weeks later. Starts his BS again... I
tell him that I've got my Banner Rep down to $100 and he's out of the
running. THEN he breaks out a catalog and starts showing me sensors in
the $90-$110 range that will do what I want, which is what I wanted to
Me: I thought you didn't have anything else more reasonable?
Him: I have to push the new stuff, this is older technology.
Me: I told you I didn't need fancy new stuff, I needed a basic beam
sensor.. beam is broke, or it's not..I don't care if it's 10" from the
sensor or 40" from the sensor...the parts are in a conveyor.
Me: So, you came in here trying to jack me on price for shit I didn't
need or want... and lied to me about what you did have available..
Me: You know...one thing I cannot stand, and will not tolerate..is a
By this time, I'm pissed....and I'll not repeat the rest of the
conversation...it's XX rated...
Needless to say..he was told not to ever contact me again, he didn't have
anything I would ever need, and even if he did, I wouldn't buy it...so
just don't bother.
This happened about 2 years ago, I've not seen him since. I did get an
email a couple days ago saying he no longer covers our area and another
fella is taking over the area. Wonder how many times he's gotten caught
with his finger in the cookie jar....
In another incident:
In December, I ran into another vendor or two who handle Camozzi
fittings. I only had one source, so I gave these two companies a chance
to competitively bid. One of the vendors came in about 7%-10% lower than
the price list I was given by the current vendor. So, I sent the pricing
to our maintenance parts storeroom Team Leader to let her know of the
She checked her pricing in the system, and found that 'lo and behold, the
new pricing was 10% higher than what she was paying the same vendor I was
I buy 30x as many fittings as she does as the fittings in the storeroom
are just for replacement purposes, whereas mine are used for new
So, I'm getting charged 20% higher pricing than the storeroom in the same
company, from the same vendor on the same fittings....this is not
good....matter of fact, it's infuriating...to be honest.
So I called the rep and had him come in for a meeting. I didn't tell him
the purpose of the meeting, because I didn't want him to have time to
formulate a line of BS before he got there.
I sit down with him and our storeroom Team Leader, and put the paperwork
out there...and ask for an explanation....
He doesn't have one...and I still don't have one to this day..
Not only did he get a reaming by me, but our storeroom Team Leader has a
mean streak from hell and she let loose with both barrels...
That crap is just stupid from a vendor standpoint. We are now actively
looking for a new vendor with reasonable pricing. I don't want to deal
with a company that would do this type of thing.
I've had numerous tool vendors come in. Swear be damned that this coated
carbide tool will run 30x as many parts as our PCD tools. I've had so
many I just shake my head anymore.
One guy came in with that speil about 2 years ago, was thin-film diamond.
I told him upfront, it won't live. He swore it would go 10x over PCD.
Just kept at it....I got tired of listening to it....so....
Me: Ok, I'll tell you what. You make it to this print (handing him a
print of one of our tool shapes). I'll put it in and run it. You furnish
the tool for free, and you pay for any scrap it runs.
And he bought it!!!!!
I couldn't believe he was that stupid......or was that brainwashed by his
This tool is used in 18% Si aluminum alloy. He was aware of that, and
never blinked an eye when I told him 18% Si. (I knew right then he didn't
know what the hell he was talking about.)
I showed him our current tool life (about 15,000 parts). According to
your claims, it needs to run 150,000 parts.
So a few weeks later, here he comes with his tools.
I shut the line down and change them out with him present to make sure
everything was on the up and up.
Start up the machine and dial it in.
It lasted about 220 parts (about 40 minutes) and starts spitting out
So I shut it down, pull out his eaten up tools, the whole nose is gone
off of them. Looked like you had had them on a rough-assed grinding
wheel. Huge cratering behind where the chip curles. I hand them back to
He's got a look on his face like he's been dope-slapped.
I count up the scrap and give him a number..here's your bill. Be glad I'm
not charging you for the downtime.
Next time, you might ought to do a little objective research before you
go sticking that foot so far down your throat......
You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
Along those lines, I gave the exact same order to three diff salesguys at
the big aluminum house in NY, and the quotes varied by 30%.
Just to be clear, 3 diff salesguys proly no farther than 3 desks apart at
the same supplier in the same office, with a 30% diff.
Funny, the grouchiest, oldest guy of the lot gave us the best prices.
Needless to say, I'm a lot nicer to him now. :)
It seems tho, in general, the old school old timers simply have a lot more
honor, a lot more humanity than the new young turks/hustlers. Across all
kinds of disciplines/job titles.
It appears that the whole of Generation X may need to be euthanized -- and
not just the lawyers.
Mae West (yer fav Congressman) to the Gangster (yer fav Lobbyist):
HN & J:
Jeeze, did I write my question in French? I meant Tooling & MTB
claims. There just wasn't enough room to put all that in the subject
I suppose I should just go with the flow and use this as a
sociological experiment to study the various interpretations people
give to the same phrase.
So all we need now is a Cliff winger and WMD comment plus a Gunner
liberal flame of some sort, AND a patented PV "pubic ass reaming" by an
abs machine advertised by an ab-less Tony Little. LOL
when I bought a Makino FNC80 VMC at auction, the following day a Makino UK
rep knocked on my door. He had been at the auction and obtained my co
address from the auctioneer. The machine had not yet been delivered to us
from the auction site.
He offered their services to install and set-up the machine to which I said
no thanks we will do it ourselves. His reply was "don't come running to us
then if you can't get it going"............so I told him he was trespassing
and to leave the premises............that was in 1989.
I had a customer hand me a print asking where the "printreader" was. He was
told all he had to do is feed the the print into the printreader and the
machine would make his part.
Another one asks "can this machine hold .0002?". I said sure what are you
using for inspection. He said he could feel .0001 with his caliper. I said
the machine is so tight it has zero tolerance. He confirmed the machines
better than .0000001 accuracy with his caliper.
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