Why do serious machine shops often replace their Haas CNC machines when they grow?


http://youtu.be/J1jvt1A4_Uk

http://youtu.be/J1jvt1A4_Uk


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I have an idea this was not quite fair. No way the hp requirements of that cut exceeded the hp of the machine. My 15 hp fadal could do that cut. Proly a 5 hp machine could. Ahm no 'spert, but vmc's have a way of detecting a crash condition, and it looks like that's what was happening here. If he came in at, say, 60 ipm, and then *ramped up to 120 ipm*, I'll bet good bucks that the Haas would not have alarmed out.
If this is the case, one could arger that the Haas was a *safer* machine, and that you just have to work around this a bit, from a production pov, but once worked around, will still have better "crash protection".
I don't think anyone, not even Haas, would debate that the makino is a "better" machine. It all boils down what you actually require, and bang-fer-yer-buck.
Also, I don't think ramping up is such a bad idea, anyway, altho mebbe unnecessary once a program has been proved out, for full production.
--
EA




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etically be

MC

n make a cut?

you need to get a torque-curve chart from the manufacturer. A machinist should in any case. You have to know what your machine is capable of, t o get maximum use out of it without damaging it.

e are plenty of options as to DOC, RPM, and Feed-Rate. It might not equa l the Makino PS95 in cutting speed, but you could probably buy THREE Haas m ills for the price of ONE PS95.

, or less productive? The answer to THAT particular question has been as ked by shop owners for decades, and depends on the type of work a particula r shop does.

BottleBoob,
You're trying to teach a rock to float.
Jon hasn't a clue that people need to read and understand machine specifications before they buy and hopefully before they try to program them.
As for the guy who made the video, I feel sorry for him for one day (unlike a Banquer) he may come to understand his mistake.
Hey, Bob, a machine I am setting up on right now, just ran (an in the machine) probing cycle on two critical dimensions. Reading came out (X) 5.64034094488" & (Y) 3.64034094488" WTF? you say, 6 million pulse per revolution encoders...........LOL.
Good to see you still breathing, Tom
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On Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:05:19 PM UTC-8, brewertr wrote:

oretically be

_VMC

.
ven make a cut?

l, you need to get a torque-curve chart from the manufacturer. A machini st should in any case. You have to know what your machine is capable of, to get maximum use out of it without damaging it.

ere are plenty of options as to DOC, RPM, and Feed-Rate. It might not eq ual the Makino PS95 in cutting speed, but you could probably buy THREE Haas mills for the price of ONE PS95.

re, or less productive? The answer to THAT particular question has been asked by shop owners for decades, and depends on the type of work a particu lar shop does.

Tom:
Jeesh, can't a guy get any respect around here... That's BattleBoob. LOL

I wonder if there might be a spot across the torque/Horsepower curve wh ere the Haas might outperform the Makino. Probably not given the 140 ft-lb s of the Makino vs. the 90 ft-lbs of the Haas. But ya never know. If I were head of Haas public relations I'd be having the peons working overtime to try and find one. LOL

Now that's just goofy, that many decimal places aren't even repeata ble if you just BREATHE on the part. :)

Thanks. Yeah, I'm still kickin'. My posting in here recently is d efinitely an anomaly, I'll be crawling back into my reclusive Batcave in sh ort order.

--
BottleBob
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eBoob. LOL
Respect yes, a break Hell NO.....

rve where the Haas might outperform the Makino. Probably not given the 1 40 ft-lbs of the Makino vs. the 90 ft-lbs of the Haas. But ya never know .

orking overtime to try

It just boggles the mind that a person would buy a Haas and then complain they got a Haas. WTF, if your responsible for making the decision then who's at fault, its called due diligence for a reason.
As for Jon thinking the video validates his previous clueless rants on Haas and their HP ratings. Two machines shown in the video are from two completely different classes the video demonstrates the performance is not equal, WTF, what would any sane, knowledgeable person expect, they ARE NOT EQUAL, all you need do is read the manufacturers specs.
Dear Jon, Dear Dear Jon, Poor Poor Jon, Bob pointed you to the manufacturers HP-Torque Chart, gave you the formula for calculating material removal rate and converting material removal rate to horsepower (required) and STILL you haven't a clue. It's true, you must be twins cause no one person can be this stupid. Clue, Spindle Motor HP rating is NOT the only variable (dumb ass).

en repeatable if you just BREATHE on the part. :)
Yes a bit goofy. In this example it was the first part and I hadn't refined the macro yet so I looked up the actual reading in one parameter and the variation from mean in another for each dimension checked. Not normal for anyone to read them. For production I will set the dim. mean, give it a tolerance, depending upon the reading it will make an automatic offset to tool or change to another tool or stop the process altogether and notify the operator (alarm message). I just found the raw readings humorous when reading this thread.
The machine is guaranteed .00002" repeatability and the probe is the same. Machine is very rigid and thermally stable so we bought a gauge standard (linear and radial surfaces) to guarantee exactly what we are getting for in process inspection. Helps to place the next jobs material in the shop next to the machine for a day or two so it normalizes.
Here's a kicker for you, it's a 5 axis VMC trunnion with a lathe function. Turning tools load into the spindle, C Axis is the lathe spindle and the Rotary (A) Axis doesn't have to be vertical or horizontal it can be either/or/and. I've run it both Horizontal and Vertical but haven't tried any angles in between.

recently is definitely an anomaly, I'll be crawling back into my reclusive Batcave in short order.

Tom
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Nice snip Jon, you managed to change the context,
From: snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Brewertr) Subject: SDRC drops the ball again Date: 1998/08/23 [ What I forgot to mention in my last post was that the shit hit the fan when someone showed me the invoice saying it was time to pay and asked me for an OK, They did not forget any items in the invoice they just didn't ship me my order. That is when I wrote a one page fax canceling our order and a copy of both pages of our purchase order. It was kind of funny that I received a call from my VAR before the last page was sent. How in the hell can you bill someone and not confirm that the shipment has been made.
{

has

} (Jon Banquer)
Jon, I never forgot any of your postings about SDRC I made the wrong decision in spite of what you said. There have been a number of times that my Wife has told me to be careful in dealing with someone and after words says "I told you so". She earned the right to say it as well as you have earned the right to say I TOLD YOU SO. I made a decision that went against my better judgment and as usual it turned out poorly.
Although I wanted to be loyal to a product that had been good to me and give them a chance and the benefit of the doubt. In return I got royally screwed. Loyalty does not seem to be in the SDRC Dictionary and Customer Service is a four letter word.
Tom ]
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In this case my PO had terms and conditions to protect us (the buyer). I canceled the order, they received no money from us.
Nice try at editing my post so you could change the context, what you forgot to leave in:
[ What I forgot to mention in my last post was that the shit hit the fan when someone showed me the invoice saying it was time to pay and asked me for an OK, They did not forget any items in the invoice they just didn't ship me my order. That is when I wrote a one page fax canceling our order and a copy of both pages of our purchase order. It was kind of funny that I received a call from my VAR before the last page was sent. How in the hell can you bill someone and not confirm that the shipment has been made.
{

has

} (Jon Banquer)
Jon, I never forgot any of your postings about SDRC I made the wrong decision in spite of what you said. There have been a number of times that my Wife has told me to be careful in dealing with someone and after words says "I told you so". She earned the right to say it as well as you have earned the right to say I TOLD YOU SO. I made a decision that went against my better judgment and as usual it turned out poorly.
Although I wanted to be loyal to a product that had been good to me and give them a chance and the benefit of the doubt. In return I got royally screwed. Loyalty does not seem to be in the SDRC Dictionary and Customer Service is a four letter word.
Tom ] Brewertr Subject: SDRC drops the ball again, Date: 1998/08/23
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Around that time Jon (1998) I thought you actually knew something about CAD/CAM. Like most that come into contact with you here and elsewhere, at first we think you know something till you start talking about the programs we know and/or use, that's when your false facade cracks and falls away and we're just left with a clueless clown (CC/ CAD/CAM technology leaders group).
The funny thing about your statement of the time that "SDRC doesn't know how to market to job shops" never changes and like a broken clock which shows the correct time twice a day you were correct in this case. But that's no why I didn't buy, that's not the only reason why I canceled the PO, I could have forgiven all and they could have corrected any outstanding issues with us if only the software was any good. The SOFTWARE SUCKED JON and you totally missed that.....LOL. They couldn't sell to small machine shops because THE SOFTWARE SUCKED.
Tom
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10 point deduction for not having your hair in a ponytail, you old hippie!!!!!!!!
Keep on truckin' BB!
Remove "nospam" to get to me.
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On Friday, January 11, 2013 3:05:58 PM UTC-8, Alphonso wrote:

Alphonso:
Another blast from the past, how ya doing guy?
Actually, my hair WAS in a pony tail. The only time is ISN'T, is when I'm washing it.
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BottleBob
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BottleBob wrote:

Bob, It was probably the glare off the top of your head making it hard to see the pony tail.
Best, Steve
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