I live in Ontario, Canada, & Graduated with EE Bachlor degree
On June 2003. Ever since I graduated, I've NOT ( should NOT be surprising
to most people ) been able to find ANY job in the field of EE (Mainly
Because I've 0 Years of Industrial Experience, & my GPA is only B- ). I'm
becoming more & more worried that, my EE Bachelor Degree will be Viewed
as Obsolete ON MY Resume by most-if-not-all potential employer, even
though I've been vigorously reviewing my UnderGrad Course Materials.
I think my remaining options are:
1) Volunteer (I Live @ Home) to gain the ever-so-precious Initial Industrial Experience
2) Going for the Master Degree (Although I would have to try for Special Student, Since my UnderGrad GPA is B-, which is Way Below the Master's Minimum Requirement of B+ )
I would really Appreciate any comments & suggestions
in article U%6Cc.16$ snipped-for-privacy@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com, Jack Steed at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote on 6/22/04 8:43 PM:
I have been retired for so long that I do not know whether what I say will be pertinent.
You did not say what school you went to and whether they indulge in grade inflation. You also did not mention what yuou actually learned or what your hobbies were. Were you into amateur radio? Did you build or repair computers? Most BEE types without m,
My impression is that it is a tough time for the run-of-the-mill EE. It is not helped by competition from cheap foreign sources. For that reason, it should not be difficult finding a master's spot if you are willing to pay your own way.
| I live in Ontario, Canada, & Graduated with EE Bachlor degree | | On June 2003. Ever since I graduated, I've NOT ( should NOT be surprising | | to most people ) been able to find ANY job in the field of EE (Mainly | | Because I've 0 Years of Industrial Experience, & my GPA is only B- ). I'm | | becoming more & more worried that, my EE Bachelor Degree will be Viewed | | as Obsolete ON MY Resume by most-if-not-all potential employer, even | | though I've been vigorously reviewing my UnderGrad Course Materials. | | | I think my remaining options are: | | 1) Volunteer (I Live @ Home) to gain the ever-so-precious Initial | Industrial Experience | | 2) Going for the Master Degree (Although I would have to try for | Special Student, Since my UnderGrad GPA is B-, which is Way | Below the Master's Minimum Requirement of B+ ) | | | I would really Appreciate any comments & suggestions | | Thanks a Bunch
Be sure to get active politically and fight all those attempts by industry to expand education in areas of science, engineering, and technology.
Another option is starting your own business. You'll need to find and pair up with a trustable partner who knows business (and as far as I can tell, such people are hard to find).
What specific areas in EE did you study and are most interested in?
FYI, experience does not appear to be a help, on average (it's hard to say what any one particular job would really best have). Engineers with 20-30 years experience have been laid off in the US by companies that instead hire out through offshore outsourcing (they aren't even replacing them with recent college grads, so it's not an issue of having studied all the new stuff in college). Most other fields in engineering and technology are running into similar problems. So many corporations are selling our two countries (and like problems in Europe, too) down the drain for short term profits.
Try lowering your standards and expanding your pool of options. For example, if you would like to work near your home, you may need to consider jobs that are farther away than you would like or require more travel than you would like. Also, if your desperate enough to consider volunteering, what about doing Cad/Cam work. I would bet if you could get your foot in the door doing CAD, you could make it into an engineering position in a few years if you worked hard and impressed your employers.
I don't think I would go the masters route unless you have employers that want a masters degree for an entry level job. You run the risk of becoming too well educated (and too costly) for the initial position.
As for studying your undergrad courses I don't know that there is a lot of value in that time investment. When I graduated, I found that the most useful thing I learned was how to teach myself. You will most likely not need to remember how to integrate the magnetic flux density passing through a sphere on your first day at work. Odds are, your employer will teach you what you need to know. They just want someone capable of learning the technical material quickly.
I concentrated mostly in Analog/Digital Discrete/IC circuits design, in my UnderGrad years. But I guess I need Truck Load of Experience, to get a Job in Analog/Digital Circuit Design/Testing/Verification.
Most schools in the US arrange interviews for the June grads during their last year at school. Unless you KNOW you have a job when you graduate, you should have "signed up" for EVERY company that sent someone. At the minimum you would have receive practice in being interviewed and a rought idea of what's going on in the "real" world.
From the view of most companies, you are "picked over" goods.
If you have the money, you should consider more education leading to either an advanced degree or a degree in another field (e.g.: education.) Were you in the US, I would suggest that you try law school, or dental school, or medical school.
Your best bet now is SALES. You will still have trouble getting your foot into the door but a company that pays the sales staff mostly on commission might be willing to give you a few months training in the hope that you work out.
Spend ALL your time in looking for work. Don't get sidetracked.
The key is that when you get a job, you work hard and pay attention.
I found many five star electrical companies hire electrical engineers without electrical engineer degree requirement. They just look for a higher average grade point as a requirement. If you have EE degree, you have more likely with lower grade point than social science students.
Repeating Rifle wrote in news:BCFE5273.1B9A4% snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net:
I concentrated mostly in Analog/Digital Discrete/IC circuits design, in my UnderGrad years. But I guess I need Truck Load of Experience, to get a Job in Analog/Digital Circuit Design/Testing/Verification.
I don't know if you're talking about the ease of finding a Master's Spot, in US.
But here in Canada, MOst if not ALL (over Canada) Universities, either don't have EE Major, or have the Minimum Master Entry Average set at B+ (my GPA is B-, that's why I'm going to try to qualify for the Master's Program as a Special Student).
You are living in the wrong place. Look at address of innovative products in the electronic trade rags (magazines). Notice nothing innovative in your area? You want to work? Go where the work is. West Coast US is but one area. Again, notice that no one who is innovative in electronics stays or manufactures where you live. They go where the attitude is different. To take a risk. To try something new. To push out the envelope. That is not your current region where cost controls, the necktie, and the MBA degree make innovation difficult.
Correct to assume your degree degrades every year it is not used. Assume the degree is useless (equivalent to a business or psychology degree) if not used within four years.
Some additional factors. Who is the top management? If they came from the business schools, then they are not interested in product; only in profits. Then most of their designers don't even have degrees. This is common in regions where costs - not the product - are more important. If it very profitable to be a beltway bandit - engineering companies that leach on government contracts. What is produced does not matter as long as it passes the tests - which may or may not mean the product works.
This is not the envir> I concentrated mostly in Analog/Digital Discrete/IC circuits
GPA is the biggest load of crap. From a striclty engineering perspective, it has a lot ot do with luck. Luck in finding good partners in class, luck in having competent professors, and luck in having the free time to solve multinomial equations over and over again without having to go to work to pay the rent. I went to an accredited school, not shabby either, and had some good teachers and some bad. But I can tell you, GPA had little to no correlation between what kids learned and what they didn't. In general, GPA is bogus because it all depends on the subject you are in. My sister went to an ivy league school, and worked in the grad-school admissions office. She studied biology, worked two part-time jobs, and still maintained a B- / C+ GPA, whilst rich kids came dancing in with "summa cum laude" and 3.8-4.0 GPAs, studying Education and PoliSci. Gimme a break.
I, too, am unemployed and reviewing my textbook basics. I do this because I did have a contract job my senior year with a semiconductor design firm, and I was asked some very basic, but thoughtful, questions about generating waveforms and the effects of a resistor "up here or down there" in an amplifier circuit. I am not studying everything, or going to school all over again, but I am definitely keeping it fresh in my mind.
Unemployment can be maddening. The people who are currently employed tell us that all that tech crap is not that important, but when you are interviewed it is. We have no idea what is going on in industry or what is important to know, other than reading trade journals. We focus on a specific type of job (filter design) and then read how IBM is setting up an analog design center in Fujian Province.
I suggest to you, Jack Steed, that you begin a lot of communication. Set up "informational interviews," bug people at companies with questions, posture yourself as a young buck fresh out of college thirsty for knowledge and a way in, as opposed to a bitter, aging, out-of-work-in-debt engineer who wants a damn job now! . (not that you are doing this, my point being the first posture will garner more sympathy and help)
You don't know until you try. Dental and Medical school admissions are quite subjective. You would be passed over by Harvard but there a LOTS of medical schools. If a school thinks you would make the kind of doctor they want to put out, you are in.
Remember that few applicants to professional schools have engineering degrees. Most have taken a watered down, "pre-med" degree. An honest B- in engineering might be equivalent to a B+ in "pre-med."
What can I say other than remember that fact 20 years from now when they start asking for donations.
If you haven't pissed off the faculty, you might ask everyone who remembers you name if he knows of something. Likewise, call up everyone from the school who might remember your name and ask for help.
Like it or not, many or MOST jobs in engineering are WIRED. You are hired because someone already connected with the company knows you and believes he can work with you. That's why you might want to call your former classmates. Maybe the place they are working needs some extra help.
Who cares. Most managers are morons anyway. The "Dilbert"(R) comic strip was a smashing success for no reason.
It MIGHT be a mistake to assume that no graduate school would take you. There might be a fit. I know of an engineering school that would, twenty years ago, take anyone. THEY TOOK ME!!! And, I got a 4.0 the first semester while . . . I better stop there. Write if you want the fun details.
This could be excellent advice. I don't know about today because I left corporate-land some years ago. However, I think that 20 to 30 years ago the greatest percentage of the residents of CEO-land came from sales. Sales is the most important part of a corporation. la
Great points. I'm a EE that got his degree at 32. Simply worked as a technician all years before and after. Now I'm facing layoff from my technical job again. Its easy to get bitter especially after hearing about all of the rumors over outsourcing. Hell I was on the Corp of Engineers website looking at jobs in Iraq and Afghanistan. Was semi-interested until reading the part about communal showers or bathing out of your helmet. I can handle the decapitation risk. Sure wish I went into Civil Engr. Better jobs prospects in my opinion. I lost my EE edge years ago.... if I ever had it.
tHAT MEANS little. You should have studied basics. Like circuit theory, Math, Electronics and the other basic things that could have been applied anywheres. There are few decent analog engineers around today. Most people study the digital stuff.
There are really very few real engineers around. Most companies have just a few real engineers who are creative and design the equipment and then surround them with a couple hundred other people who the gratuitously call engineers. These people do the packageing, therman analyses, reliability analyses, buying parts, testing and you name it.
I would doubt that there are 1000 real engineers who create the stuff in the whole USA and they for the most part work for large companies or do as I did, make real money working on a consultant basis.
The first place you should try for a job is with a head hunter. They generally will find a place to fit you in, even if only temporarily. Some companies just want bodies to fill goverment requirements and you can get a lot of experiance that way.
My son with a law degree gets about $60 bucks an hour as a consultant engineer working for a head hunter and has been continously employed except for about 2 months in the last 10 years.
Before I retired, I worked both for private companies and the goverment in NON PROFITS like the Aerospace Corp and the Rand Corp and in the terms of todays dollars earned between a quarter million and a half million a year. This plus all sorts of extra goodies when I pulled somebodies fat out of the fire.
The Jobs are out there. You just can not start as the head of the company, it often take a year or two to work up to that position. ;-)
I almost forgot. I was earning that kind of salary before I even had a degree. I did attend the most advanced Electronics school in the country though RCA's T3 program. It was not recognized, but it's graduates were sought around the world. I eventually did get a degree, but was the Chief engineer of one company long before I got a degree from a university., So you see, if you have the stuff and the chutzpah you don't even need a degree.
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