Advice - Graduating without any Internships?

Well, I didn't have the GPA that you do, (I graduated 3 years ago), and I didn't have any internships either, and now I'm without a job, or a career, or any prospects, in this depressed economy. I directly blame the republicans and all the money they're spending on this stupid conflict in Iraq instead of the money that should be spent at home.

??? That is odd. We are having fits finding qualified engineers. Good engineers can pretty much write their own tickets. The demand for engineers is up, not down. What are the details of your degree? What school?

Charles Perry P.E.

I do not think you are in bad shape. With that GPA, and assuming the research work is relevent, you should not have a problem.

Charles Perry P.E.

I'm certainly at the other end of my career than AG and jerothb, but there are a *lot* of jobs out there to be had. One does have to go where the jobs are. At least that hasn't changed in 34 years. ;-)

Well I'm not bound by location so I'm willing to go just about anywhere. Hopefully that will be to my advantage. :)

|>> I got behind in the internship search and didn't find anything for |>> this summer. I'm still trying to look but it seems impossible at this |>> point. (is it even possible this late??) I am going to graduate in |>> December, and I'm freaking out because I went to a great school and |>> never got an internship while I was there. I need to find work for |>> when I graduate in December. |>>

|>> So, if I don't magically find an internship for this summer (which is |>> probably the most likely case), how screwed am I? I am a good |>> student; my gpa is current 3.65 and I am sure I can get it to 3.7 by |>> the time I graduate. |>>

|>> So, if I graduate with near a 3.7 or so GPA from a prestigious |>> university and a some independent research projects, but absolutely no |>> internships/jobs, how hard will it be to find good employment when I |>> graduate in December? I'm an EE major specializing in communications |>> and signals. |>>

|>> I'm really starting to panic. Once I graduate, I will desperately need |>> to make money as soon as possible. And I mean desperately (long |>> story). Otherwise I would have gone to grad school. I feel bad that I |>> can't go to grad school, but it really is absolutely impossible at |>> this point. |>>

|>> How bad shape am I in? |>>

|>> Thanks so much for any help. |>

|>

|> Well, I didn't have the GPA that you do, (I graduated 3 years ago), and I |> didn't have any internships either, and now I'm without a job, or a |> career, or any prospects, in this depressed economy. I directly blame the |> republicans and all the money they're spending on this stupid conflict in |> Iraq instead of the money that should be spent at home. | | ??? That is odd. We are having fits finding qualified engineers. Good | engineers can pretty much write their own tickets. The demand for engineers | is up, not down. What are the details of your degree? What school?

There are plenty of good engineers in the digital arena out there looking for work. Note that they want _decent_ jobs ... NOT the "tag along with salesmen and be a yes-man" crap jobs that so many big corporations want. They want jobs where they can actually do something creative and/or innovative being engineers. To most engineers the quality of their work is what counts, not convincing clients that one companies products are better than another. The computer programmer fields are in the same boat. Too many corporations are outsourcing the creative/innovative work that gets done inside research labs and technical offices (and can sometimes be done at home), and wanting only to hire the customer contact jobs domestically.

So if you are "having fits finding qualified engineers" ... show the job listings (a list of direct links to each) so we can decide if these are truly decent jobs that engineers want, or are the kinds of crap jobs that engineers hate. I assume each job is posted on at least 5 different job boards (since it is _NOT_ the case the job hunters have the time to scour every job board out there every day).

FYI, I can be available in about 2 months to do embedded firmware programming on Linux or NetBSD based devices on a telecommute at home basis (unless work is within 100 km of where I live where pay is higher for greater distance).

|> >> I got behind in the internship search and didn't find anything for |> >> this summer. I'm still trying to look but it seems impossible at this |> >> point. (is it even possible this late??) I am going to graduate in |> >> December, and I'm freaking out because I went to a great school and |> >> never got an internship while I was there. I need to find work for |> >> when I graduate in December. |> >>

|> >> So, if I don't magically find an internship for this summer (which is |> >> probably the most likely case), how screwed am I? I am a good |> >> student; my gpa is current 3.65 and I am sure I can get it to 3.7 by |> >> the time I graduate. |> >>

|> >> So, if I graduate with near a 3.7 or so GPA from a prestigious |> >> university and a some independent research projects, but absolutely no |> >> internships/jobs, how hard will it be to find good employment when I |> >> graduate in December? I'm an EE major specializing in communications |> >> and signals. |> >>

|> >> I'm really starting to panic. Once I graduate, I will desperately need |> >> to make money as soon as possible. And I mean desperately (long |> >> story). Otherwise I would have gone to grad school. I feel bad that I |> >> can't go to grad school, but it really is absolutely impossible at |> >> this point. |> >>

|> >> How bad shape am I in? |> >>

|> >> Thanks so much for any help. |> >

|> >

|> > Well, I didn't have the GPA that you do, (I graduated 3 years ago), and I |> > didn't have any internships either, and now I'm without a job, or a |> > career, or any prospects, in this depressed economy. I directly blame the |> > republicans and all the money they're spending on this stupid conflict in |> > Iraq instead of the money that should be spent at home. |> |> ??? That is odd. We are having fits finding qualified engineers. Good |> engineers can pretty much write their own tickets. The demand for engineers |> is up, not down. What are the details of your degree? What school? | | I'm certainly at the other end of my career than AG and jerothb, but | there are a *lot* of jobs out there to be had. One does have to go | where the jobs are. At least that hasn't changed in 34 years. ;-)

That is in fact one of the difficulties. Jobs are NOT distributed in the same way as the population. But when a company is willing to have someone do the job 20000 km away they then seem to be uninterested in someone 2000 km away.

I did the "follow the jobs" thing for many years. When the jobs disappeared into no particular direction (and employers were getting 6000 resumes for a job, of which 600 were qualified), I decided it was time to re-bond with the family.

An employer that has jobs that really have to be done in that particular location, because of needs to access special facilities or large machines, or the work is with large devices or such, then I can see the need for them to want to hire people that can move there. But for jobs that can be done on a distributed or telecommute basis, such employers have no basis for any complaint of not being able to find people.

It most certainly will be to your advantage. Remember, you first=20 job is to gain experience. You may have to shovel stinky stuff, but=20 learn to like it. Above all, *learn*. You'll be fine. =20

--=20 Keith

Why should they be, particularly if you have skills that aren't in great demand everywhere (like a plumber).

Your choice. I lived 1000 miles from family for 30+ years. Now that I'm getting around to moving closer (only 400mi now), my mother is 95yo and my wife's family has passed on. One brother is still close by. OTOH, *out* family is left back.

Umm, *they* are not the ones complaining here. It's their money - they get to choose the rules.

...yet there are *plenty* of companies looking for engineers. Something isn't adding up.

Job hunters might not (I certainly don't at my current contract rates) but head hunters certainly do!

Perhaps there isn't anyone within 100km of where you live that wants/needs your skills. I'll *guarantee* that if you remove that

100km restriction you'll have more calls than you can answer (well, assuming you have real hardware experience too). I get many calls for embedded programming work, but I have to tell them that I'm not a 'C' programmer. I'll do assembler, if need be, but I'm primarily a hardware engineer.

MOST decent schools have representatives of companies and govrenment agencies come in to interview prespective applicants. Unfortunately for you, these usually are schedules for the Spring when most kids graduate. That said, your placement office still might be able to help you.

Internships are often used to help "screen" students to see whether the would fit into the company once they graduate. They also let staff know what the current generation of students is like.

But many organizations just want bright applicants with the intention of teaching them the specifics once they are on the payroll. For these outfits, your internship might actually be a "negative" as you may have picked up bad habbits from another company.

** Posted from **

Well, the good news is that we actually get a lot of recruiters in the fall. I also have a teacher who wants to help me with the whole job search thing, so hopefully it will all work out. My interviewing skills are probably my weakest thing at this point, so I think I'll do my best to develop them over the summer.

[...]

|> That is in fact one of the difficulties. Jobs are NOT distributed in the same |> way as the population. But when a company is willing to have someone do the |> job 20000 km away they then seem to be uninterested in someone 2000 km away. | | Why should they be, particularly if you have skills that aren't in | great demand everywhere (like a plumber).

I'm referring to cases where both have the skills, and in most cases the one

20000 km has much less experience, but works for less because of the economics of their country, and the exchange rate.

|> An employer that has jobs that really have to be done in that particular |> location, because of needs to access special facilities or large machines, |> or the work is with large devices or such, then I can see the need for them |> to want to hire people that can move there. But for jobs that can be done |> on a distributed or telecommute basis, such employers have no basis for any |> complaint of not being able to find people. | | Umm, *they* are not the ones complaining here. It's their money - | they get to choose the rules.

They are making the claim that there is a lack of talented, trained, and experience people. This is a FALSE CLAIM. Of course they get to make the rules ... most of them. One rule that do NOT get to make is the one about false representation. What they are NOT telling us is that their rule is about hiring people cheap. If they were to tell the truth, they would be saying "there are not enough people out there willing to work for lower salaries and with less benefits, and willing to be jerked around by our incompetent mid-level managers".

There ARE talented, trained, and experience people available right here in the USA. The same goes for Europe. What companies need to do to get them to come on board is to make them an acceptable offer for a decent job.

| ...yet there are *plenty* of companies looking for engineers. | Something isn't adding up.

What's not adding up is they are only looking for the subset of engineers willing to work long hours for peanuts and few benefits for incompetent mid-level managers.

|> FYI, I can be available in about 2 months to do embedded firmware programming |> on Linux or NetBSD based devices on a telecommute at home basis (unless work |> is within 100 km of where I live where pay is higher for greater distance). | | Perhaps there isn't anyone within 100km of where you live that | wants/needs your skills. I'll *guarantee* that if you remove that | 100km restriction you'll have more calls than you can answer (well, | assuming you have real hardware experience too). I get many calls | for embedded programming work, but I have to tell them that I'm not | a 'C' programmer. I'll do assembler, if need be, but I'm primarily | a hardware engineer.

I'm already fending off the distant calls (well, mostly email). They are for the most part unwilling to bend. They don't offer enough money to make it worth moving. They aren't willing to have me do remote work. I've shifted more away from system administration and back to programming just so I can get remote work. I do lots of C programming and some assembler for several platforms (I prefer ARM, MIPS, PPC, Sparc, and S/370 when doing assembler, not x86/x86-64). I'd prefer more embedded programming ... these machines are much larger and faster than PCs were when I started Linux, and larger and faster than mainframes were when I got out of that field.

Absolute bullshit.

I "retired", after 30+ years about 18 months ago so took some time off to sell my house so I could move. After getting the house on the market I had no problems finding contract work (was working within 3 weeks of posting my resume on Monster). I really wasn't actively looking, rather testing the water. A job came up that would allow me to brush up on some skills I hadn't used in a while and it paid damned well (adding a pile of OT didn't hurt the bank account ;).

This contract job was only supposed to be a three month assignment but I was extended six more and they wanted another six on top of that, but I want a more permanent position so I'm "contracting" week-to-week now. I found a permanent position a little while back, but the offer was rescinded before I started (the company had two reqs out, but decided they could only afford one). I've been getting 10-20 calls a week (down from three a day) and have had several on-site interviews around the region recently. The market for hardware types is quite good and would be a lot better if I had some serious C experience (and wasn't so picky about location and job types). I just turned down a phone interview today because I don't have the experience "required". I have one tomorrow for a hardware position, where they're also looking for a software type. BTW, I've ruled out probably 90% of the possibilities (won't move back to the Northeast, or to the West coast).

It is *not* all gloom and doom out there. It's actually quite a good market, even in the Midwest.

Sure it happens, but certainly not universal. There are a *LOT* of engineering jobs still here. Some in areas I would *never* have considered. Your attitude is simply silly.

Absolute bullshit. I don't work cheap and don't seem to be attracting flies.

There *IS* work. If you can't find it, perhaps the problem you. I don't seem to have problems scaring it up and none of it is substandard salaries. Most I've interviewed with recently don't do overtime either (one doesn't allow access on the weekends, under ordinary circumstances).

Take him(her) up on the offer! Nothing is better than enthusiastic=20 support from an instructor, particularly a well known one. Take=20 every interview you can get where you *might* be qualified and=20 interested [*] but don't make an obvious waste of their time. The=20 interview process will teach you a lot. After each, give yourself a=20 critique. What did you do/say wrong? Where were you weak? What=20 could you have done better? Have a beer, and start preparing for =20 the next one (not drunk ;). =20

[*] In your situation, I took one interview where I had little=20 interest in the company but my lab partner had gone to work for them=20 nine months earlier. I figured that if I got a plant trip, I'd get=20 to see her again. I did, and did. I ended up working for the=20 company for >32 years. ;-)

Like I said, I'm at the other end of my career. I've had 30+ years=20 experience (and retired once) but am looking for a full time=20 position too (retirement isn't all it's cracked up to be. ;-) I'd=20 like to work another ten. I enjoy engineering. No, I'm not=20 interested in management (makes the hiring managers less nervous ;).

It will.

Take as many interviews you can, for practice. There are also books=20 that I found helped. I've also gotten some good advice from head=20 hunters. You'll have to figure out your own style, but take it all.

--=20 Keith

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 19:48:54 -0400 krw wrote: | In article , phil-news- | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net says... |> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:05:23 -0400 krw wrote: |> | In article , phil-news- |> | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net says... |> |> [...] |> |> |> That is in fact one of the difficulties. Jobs are NOT distributed in the same |> |> way as the population. But when a company is willing to have someone do the |> |> job 20000 km away they then seem to be uninterested in someone 2000 km away. |> | |> | Why should they be, particularly if you have skills that aren't in |> | great demand everywhere (like a plumber). |> |> I'm referring to cases where both have the skills, and in most cases the one |> 20000 km has much less experience, but works for less because of the economics |> of their country, and the exchange rate. | | Sure it happens, but certainly not universal. There are a *LOT* of | engineering jobs still here. Some in areas I would *never* have | considered. Your attitude is simply silly.

What it might come down to is that maybe you are willing to work the kinds of jobs that most engineers would not want to do. And that includes NOT wanting to move to the other side of the continent.

|> |> An employer that has jobs that really have to be done in that particular |> |> location, because of needs to access special facilities or large machines, |> |> or the work is with large devices or such, then I can see the need for them |> |> to want to hire people that can move there. But for jobs that can be done |> |> on a distributed or telecommute basis, such employers have no basis for any |> |> complaint of not being able to find people. |> | |> | Umm, *they* are not the ones complaining here. It's their money - |> | they get to choose the rules. |> |> They are making the claim that there is a lack of talented, trained, and |> experience people. This is a FALSE CLAIM. Of course they get to make the |> rules ... most of them. One rule that do NOT get to make is the one about |> false representation. What they are NOT telling us is that their rule is |> about hiring people cheap. If they were to tell the truth, they would be |> saying "there are not enough people out there willing to work for lower |> salaries and with less benefits, and willing to be jerked around by our |> incompetent mid-level managers". | | Absolute bullshit. I don't work cheap and don't seem to be | attracting flies.

There are plenty of talented, trained, and experienced people. That is NOT a claim that YOU are working cheap. It's more about a disconnect between corporations and the people that are available. Much of that disconnect is probably due to the way the jobs are listed (e.g. they aren't listed where people look).

|> There ARE talented, trained, and experience people available right here in |> the USA. The same goes for Europe. What companies need to do to get them |> to come on board is to make them an acceptable offer for a decent job. | | There *IS* work. If you can't find it, perhaps the problem you. I | don't seem to have problems scaring it up and none of it is | substandard salaries. Most I've interviewed with recently don't do | overtime either (one doesn't allow access on the weekends, under | ordinary circumstances).

I'm not disputing this. But I am disputing THEIR claim that there is a lack of people available. That just isn't so.

I'm not exactly cleaning latrines. I'm currently doing FPGA "firmware" and was working for a fortune 10 company before that.

That is *exactly* my point. If you (second person plural) would rather whine than work, by all means stay where you are and whine. The work is there, and I've been interviewing all over where people have told me that there isn't any work. As I said, I'm not even considering MA or CA (or anywhere close) so *I* am limiting my possibilities by 90%.

I'm not exactly turning over stones to find these jobs (Monster and recently CareerBuilder, the latter is less useful, IMO). They're calling me. Several I'm not qualified for and several I don't want (primarily MA), but I'm almost back to three calls a day and perhaps three phone interviews a week (one trip every other week).

There seems to be. Again, they aren't paying chickenfeed and most of the jobs I'm looking at come with relocation assistance. If there were an abundance of people they wouldn't need to pay these benefits. It perhaps isn't the best market ever, but it is *NOT* at all bad.