Free power from hi-V power lines?

|> under high-voltage power lines at night and see it glow --- such is the |> strength of the field around those hi voltage lines. |> OK, if the R/F field is so strong, what if one were to rig up some kind |> of 'induction - collecter' setup designed to pick up as much current |> from the field as reasonably possible. | | the EM field is not wasted energy it is a needed component of the | transmission system. the waste is in the form of heat losses.

Of course. But on whose property are they placing this EM field? Is it outside of the power line right of way?

I know of places where distribution primary, and even transmission wire, go right over (not just nearby) people's homes.

| Could you get a significant |> amount of power from a setup like this? Any power? | | if you could they would find a way to bill you for it.

Did you get to bill them for the taking of property to run their EM field?

| its not RF... RF starts at about 30 kHz. | 60 Hz is audio or AF | | you can't "blast" RF... you can emit it, radiate it, transmit it, and do | quite a number of other things with it, but it just has no blasting power :)

I suppose a narrow pulse would be a blast. But that's not something which is going to hold up 60 Hz.

| you can look at it as ALL energy is free... it just has to be stolen from | somewhere like the ground, the sun, the gravity well, the wind, the tides | and so on. (i wouldn't bother with the ionosphere, we need it for other uses | ) | | now here is you homework assignment: research the inverse square law and | explain how it applies to electromagnetic radiation.

And of course there is the counter EM field of the other phases.

You aren't going to get all that much.

Especially if the contraption went onto their property. Maybe even a visit from the police.

But in some cases the power lines go over other people's property, even right over homes. You can hide it in your attic of your wood frame house.

| These poles are about 80' high so I doubt I am in any serious electrocution | danger. I was just wondering if there was enough field to make an F-40 glow a | little with a coil of wire. I know I am not running my toaster. | BTW I will take all the "suing" these folks want to throw at me if I am not on | the ROW and I am just collecting stray fields (that they try to say doesn't | exist). | They sure don't want me to hire a "powerlines are killing us" attorney. | In real life I doubt I could make a F40 glow from the 70' or so away I can get | to from the ground

It's been done. It's just not enough power to really be useful for much.

| Even if you're not on their ROW, if you setup/establish an inductive 'link' | to their system for the purpose of drawing off power, the courts have | repeatedly found this to be an illegal tap onto their line. When you setup | such a system, you actually *increase* the amount of energy being | drawn/radiated from the line. And that is an illegal, induction tap. The | courts consider it very similar to if you had a direct wire leading away | from their line (except you survived the connection).

IMHO, the courts didn't consider the whole issue.

If their EM field has extended out of the right of way and onto my property from which no emminent domain process has taken place, then I have a right to tap into anything there. Then if they sue me over it, I will counter sue for illegal taking of property for the purpose of carrying an EM field that they have in other cases claimed does not exist.

| But hey, don't take my word for it, google for the court cases.

I don't doubt you. I know the cases exist. But in many cases, they do involve encroachment on the right of way.

I don't have any intent to do this with an inductive field. There's no benefit to me. But what I do plan to do is tap into earth currents. Those are present at much greater power levels that can be useful, if not sometimes destructive. That is a source of natural power. But it can also be a source of utility power because sometimes power companies do use earth return for various reason. But do they have a right to deny me the right to take natural power sources on my own land just so they can be cheap and sloppy in their distribution? If they want to take my property, they have to initiate emminent domain proceedings for any property rights they think they need, and compensate for me for what they did take.

| OK back from the crime of the century and I am starting to think this is an | urban myth. I tried several combinations of wire antennas and coils trying to | get a F40 tube to glow a little and I didn't get anything going. I am going to | get my Fluke meter and see if I can figure out what the best way is to collect | the field ... some day. | Personally I think these guys are pretty good at keeping their field up on the | pole.

What orientation are you aligning the wires?

My guess is you'd need a coil that runs straight along the lines for some distance in parallel, then has the return path at a greater distance. That would be a HUGE coil.

I have been watching this thread for a while and will finally make a few remarks.

Extracting power from the power lines is a loose coupling affair. Loose coupling is often used in resonant radio circuits. See Frederic Terman's book "Radio Engineering" or maybe "Radio Engineer's Handbook." That has about the best summary of loose transformer coupling I have seen.

Link coupling is often used to couple power from a transmitter stage to another stage. To do so efficiently requires resonant circuits. Using the principles listed by Terman, power transfer can be increased to a winding carrying a current by the current flow times the induced voltage. That behooves using large currents.

Thus, to steal maximum power from the power company, have your own power generator operating coherently with the power company. Use a step down transformer to drive a high current resonant circuit in such a way that the power company induces as high a voltage into this circuit as your geography allows. Then couple power out of this circuit with optimal coupling.

I don't think that it is worth the trouble, but some people are willing to work harder to gain from larceny than to gain an equivalent amout by honest toil.

Bill

I have a 5000' spool of 30ga (Army surplus from MARS.) I tried using the whole spool as a coil connecting one end to one end of the F40 in various orientations. Then I connected the other end of the spool to the other end of the F40. Then I slipped 10' of #5 repar in the spool for a core, aligned 0 degrees horizontal and verticle and 90 to the lines. Still no joy. Then I spooled off about 50' and ran it parallel to the line, no joy. All of this about 100' away from the line itself, About as close as I can get and not be up on "their" hill. There are actually 3 sets of conductors up there. One is the 250kv and 2 smaller sets of lines that are probably more like 50kv. The closest set is still 40-50 feet up. The top set is more like 80' up. They are twisting these line sets about every half mile and I suspect most of the field is cancelling. I did google a while last night and it seems that these currents only flow in several miles of fence or pipelines in the ROW. The only story I saw that looked like a guy who was getting power was dealing with a single phase strand, perhaps earth returned in a farm setting. There were also some parasitic systems intentionally coupled but they were up on the pole.

perish the thought, i have solved the SWR issue forever by using non-conductive radiators and transmission lines.

the zero return loss always gives me a match that better then 1:1

once i have figured out how the power the rig from the 7 Hz DC you can get by shock exciting the ionisphere ill be all set for hours of intergalactic QSOs without running down the nicads.

come to think of it, with the US govt. giving the nod to BPL (broadband over power lines) a whole new internet security issue will arise. we are already inundated with cable descrambler scams... just think if the new e-mail we will see: $10 plans for FREE internet interceptors.

My sentiments exactly. I was just trying to test/bust the myth that you can string a wire parallel to the power line at ground level and get any useful amount of power.

BTW I saw my neighbor/lineman from FPL (the guy who would "see me" and have the SWAT team decend on my house. He just laughed and told me to go for it. He said if I ever get that F40 glowing bright enough to see from the road to call him. He wants to see it too. He says they are always looking for power thieves but they look for the guys who tap the line, jump the meter or just turn them upside down a few days a month. None of them take this coupling thing seriously.

---------- Quite rightly. It is theoretically possible but, in practice, presents serious problems which make utility rates quite attractive.. If you are using inductive coupling, you need a big loop and then are dependent on what others are using, Another problem is that, if you have light load, say a 100watt, 120 V bulb, you may have several KV across the bulb -instant burn out and a real problem with the resultant arc and fire as well as that of replacing the bulb without the necessity of a funeral. If capacitive coupling is used, then the voltage will be stable (and high) but getting sufficient current capacity to do more than cause fibrillation is another problem. Sure, it is possible to stand around under an EHV line and make a fluorescent lamp glow (not at normal levels) so, in theory, you could position your home under the outside phase of an EHV line and have such lamps glow- without connecting them to anything. Wonderful, amazing, but you can do the same on a dry winter day by holding such a lamp and shuffling across the carpet -and about as practical. Either inductive or capacitive coupling to high voltage lines is high on possible hazards and very low on usefulness. Why bother?

| I have a 5000' spool of 30ga (Army surplus from MARS.) I tried using the whole | spool as a coil connecting one end to one end of the F40 in various | orientations. Then I connected the other end of the spool to the other end of | the F40. Then I slipped 10' of #5 repar in the spool for a core, aligned 0 | degrees horizontal and verticle and 90 to the lines. Still no joy. | Then I spooled off about 50' and ran it parallel to the line, no joy.

How was it looped?

Visualize a giant current transformer large enough to wrap around the whole transmission line all at once and still be outside the RoW. So it would be at least 100' inside radius, and at least 50' more to the outside. Now visualize where that imaginary CT intersects with the ground surface near you. Make the coil be a slice of that CT. If square, one side would be at least 100' long, at 100' from the line. The whole thing would be a 100' by 100' square. More turns for more voltage. Looks like you have enough for 12 turns.

Now if only you could get some big iron core, too. :-)

| I did google a while last night and it seems that these currents only flow in | several miles of fence or pipelines in the ROW. The only story I saw that | looked like a guy who was getting power was dealing with a single phase strand, | perhaps earth returned in a farm setting.

Interesting.

Another idea would be to run one or more heavy gauge wires parallel to the line, but connectioned to grounding electrodes with radials that span even further in the line paralleling direction underground. Then run the whole thing through an ordinary low ratio current transformer somewhere in the middle, with the light connected to the CT.

I recall reading an article on the Internet a couple of years ago. It was either in Laos or Russia where the power co. authorities needed to serve an isolated small village adjacent to Extra High voltage lines but did not have sufficient investment capital for transformers and a conventional substation. As I recall, they ran parallel conductors on poles for about a 20 mile segment of the line. The lines were insulated with conventional insulators. The coupling was sufficient to extract a small amount of power for the needs of the village although voltage regulation was a challenge.

Reading this, it seemed to indicate that inductive coupling to high-voltage transmission is technically possible, but not all that practical except in extremely limited circumstances. I haven't been able to relocate this article with a quick search-engine search, but perhaps someone else has seen it.

Beachcomber

in article DNmzd.584111$nl.469554@pd7tw3no, Don Kelly at snipped-for-privacy@peeshaw.ca wrote on 12/25/04 3:33 PM:

I think that I will take issue with your comments on induction. The transformer used with such inductance will have high leakage reactance. Even if you had a loop large enough to induce significant voltage, once load down the winding with a 100 W lamp, almost all of the voltage will be dropped in the leakage reactance. I haven't made the calculations but they are streaightforward enough. Don't forget that poyphase power lines will have the field dropping much faster than the 1/r dependence of an infinte single phase line in free space.

Bill

I've never seen an F40 glow under a Utilites Company Power Line, an RF/UHF Transmitter, Yes.

Before I Tap into your Creative side I don't want to distract you, Focus, Perhaps.

I've been slightly busy with this type web interface for some yrs now, for a couch potato unit it's been good to me & comfy research & compliance.

Well: I found a website of some guys Claiming enough power to get a small apartment going at regular Household Current from Fields Right in Front of Our Noses, Legally.

In Theory it is Very Feasible. we all know this deep inside.

Electric Freedom

I bet Power Brokers and Engineers everywhere are Highly interested if not out right concerned. [reversed the polarity]

From Basic Scratch the equation E=3DMC=B2 and the Spectrum of Radio Transmitted Power through Frequencies that make our Stereos, Television, HandHelds etc, work start from an intake of AC Current level Electric Energy, then it's Transformed, Stepped Up, Processed & Injected Electronically Converted into Radio Frequency Energy & Transmitted in Waveforms that our Home Recievers collect and convert Back to Sound and Video, etc.... these guys are working on Why Not go the whole distance and convert it to back to AC and Plug into our Breaker Panels as the Original Electric Source Signal. quashing the audio & video other signals together with unknown Device Y & Circuit X. being Researched .

that's one approach the Optimal Configuration is to pick up All Stray Energy Forms from our environment with this Fantastic Circuitry & Walla Look Pa' No Cables coming in.

Since Energy is Not lost but Converted Theoretically this is something I could not Refute & I'd Like to work on instead.

Rather than Molest & Load Down the Power Companies precious Magnetic Fields (probably contained & repressed inward the cables with grid shielding & technology for your grandchildrens sake) they've been Generous enough with a well know Middle G-Man in Housing.

I lost the URL but if you think we can do it, or have a link to those magnificent thinkers., drop some lines here.

Though more an Electronic Engineering Topic at this Stage it behooves you to come online with your Mentation on the subject matter., after all we might enjoy wiring up all our homes with one someday. maybe they resurface.

perhaps like the small 10yr plutonium generators out there. but more intrinsic & smaller.

hoping theres a break though in Component Mfrg. & Design that would excite The Open Field Currents continuously refreshing a Plosh DC Supply with relatively cheap components in the works as in a common DC-AC Power inverted with a PLL to handle the Intake Waves of Energy into a Step Up Array Powerful enough to Power Up a Small City Apartment with related appliances.

Even sound could be factored in.I'd get extra wattage saying What the f_ck are we waiting for ? Out Load round the collectors. think highly sensitive.

Then think ....

The Judges would be " Hunnnh " not me. };-)

how about this for a free power source:

all cars with sound systems over 100 watts per ch must install a device on the roof which collects the pressure diferantial and converts it to storable power.

Otherwise affix a coil (submersed in a magnetic field, note) to my front picture window, and sifer of the juice. Run the juice to a solonoid affixed to the trigger of a rail gun loaded with 37 pounds of fresh and unseasoned horse manure aimed at the rascal's vehicle.

Northwest

snipped-for-privacy@noaspamadelphia.net

careful, they might have WMD countermeasures installed (weapons of manure detection)

:)