Hum from phone wires running next to mains?

| |
| wrote in message | : : : : | : : : : [snip] | : : : : | : : : : : : Non-standard usage can make your posts harder
| : : : : : : to : : | : : : : understand, and more difficult for others. | : : : : Apparently, : : you don't care. I'm just adding one | : : : : more response to : : let you know that your | : : : : non-standard usage is not : : appreciated. | : : : : | : : : : Ok, you're the *second* complaint in 10+ years. | : : : : When that figure gets to a noticable percentage, I | : : : : might sit up and take notice. | : : : | : : : Third. But don't worry about me, because *plonk* | : : | : : The only problem with a straight plonk is that other | : : peoples quotes of the plonkee shine through. The | : : advantage of that is that one has a chance to decide | : : the plonk should be retracted. | | Indeed. But even three complaints in 10+ years (and I have my doubts on | the validity of at least one of them) is not worth worrying about. I post | a *lot* of articles on Usenet in 20+ groups, 3 complaints doesn't even | register. 3000 might, or even 300. But 3..? Try harder. | | BTW nobody has yet mentioned which piece of flaky software gets upset by a | : instead of a >
It looks like maybe PCPaul's software, which identifies itself as "Pan/0.132 (Waxed in Black)" might be getting them confused. I don't know if it because it is a ":" or because you are using double ": :". I don't see a logical reason for the software to get confused. Once it has parsed passed the headers and into the content body, the logic should simply be to look for any special character that is repeated at the beginning of every line. I believe a "." might have problems because it gets used as an escape during transmission in NNTP. But even that has generally worked for me (so most software still handles it OK).
Apparently what his software did was dismiss line breaks of the message he quoted, and mingle the ": :" into the message.
What can be confusing to people is the double ": :" usage. That makes it look like you quoted with ":" what your previous poster quoted with ":". So instead of that quoted text being understood as the part of the parent post, it gets misunderstood as part of the grandparent post. It also looks like you or your software replaced other people's quoting character with ":" or ": :". Whatever anyone uses, that should be left as is (unless it is clearly broken).
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|---------------------------------------/----------------------------------|
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (ka9wgn.ham.org) / Do not send to the address below |
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snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote:

... snip ...

Piggy-backing, because Jones is plonked. Obviously he doesn't get complaints, since all those who would complain have been ignored and have plonked him. Most plonkers don't bother to advise the plonkee.
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[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net
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[snip]
: > What can be confusing to people is the double ": :" : > usage. That makes : > it look like you quoted with ":" what your previous : > poster quoted with ":". So instead of that quoted text : > being understood as the part of : > the parent post, it gets misunderstood as part of the : > grandparent post. : > It also looks like you or your software replaced other : > people's quoting character with ":" or ": :". Whatever : > anyone uses, that should be : > left as is (unless it is clearly broken).
It's OE Quotefix and I've found the setting that caused it to convert the existing quote marks and I've disabled that, so they should now be as they were.
Hope this helps.
Ivor
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On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 02:41:38 -0000, "Ivor Jones"

The prudes are not listening any more.
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wrote in message

Most folks just ignore you instead of bothering getting sucked into arguments. Life's too short to waste my time on you and your 'non-standard' stuff.
<plonk>
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wrote:

One of the major reasons that i do not plonk anything but pure spam.
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On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 16:04:57 -0000, "Ivor Jones"

Not one of the three news clients i have regularly used have any problem with these quotes.
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Here's a third complaint. The only thing worse is those that post in html and so some newsreaders won't automatically mark the quoted text at all.
daestrom
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On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:23:55 -0500, "daestrom"

I don't know about "only thing worse", there are lots of worse things but make it a 4th complaint because it should not be someone else's burden to cope with non-standard quote marks - even if many newsreader apps can do so.
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[snip]
: > I don't know about "only thing worse", there are lots of : > worse things but make it a 4th complaint because it : > should not be someone else's burden to cope with : > non-standard quote marks - even if many newsreader apps : > can do so.
It shouldn't be *my* problem if your software can't cope.
Ivor
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My software copes with anything reasonable, but not with idiots who misconfigure their software.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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: >> : >>[snip] : >> : >>: > I don't know about "only thing worse", there are : >>: > lots of worse things but make it a 4th complaint : >>: > because it should not be someone else's burden to : >>: > cope with non-standard quote marks - even if many : >>: > newsreader apps can do so. : >> : >>It shouldn't be *my* problem if your software can't : >>cope. : > : > My software copes with anything reasonable, but not with : > idiots who misconfigure their software.
It's not misconfigured. Just configured differently.
Ivor
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snipped-for-privacy@thisaddressis.invalid says...

In this case, "differently" = "non-standard" => misconfigured.
--
Keith

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says...
[snip]
: >> It's not misconfigured. Just configured differently. : > : > In this case, "differently" = "non-standard" => : > misconfigured.
How do I know it's not your system that's misconfigured..? If it were configured correctly, surely it could cope with a : instead of a > ??
Ivor
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So just how many different possible quote characters is my software supposed to work for? Idiots who want to use a non-standard quote character can choose from 100 or so...
You may, or may not, be able to recognize the problem with accepting any character as the quote character... It's exactly the same as not recognizing any quote character at all. Or, recognizing the standard and looking at an article formatted with a non-standard character.
See?
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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[snip]
: > So just how many different possible quote characters is : > my software supposed to work for? Idiots who want to : > use a non-standard quote character can choose from 100 : > or so...
My software (OE Quotefix, also OE as supplied) has a choice of three - the standard > or : or |
: > You may, or may not, be able to recognize the problem : > with accepting any character as the quote character... : > It's exactly the same as not recognizing any quote : > character at all. Or, recognizing the standard and : > looking at an article formatted with a non-standard : > character. : > : > See?
No. Sorry.
Explain again what exactly your *software* (as opposed to your eyes) does with quote marks anyway..?
Ivor
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On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 23:45:29 -0000, "Ivor Jones"

Explain why we should need software with certain feature sets to reinterpret something so you don't have to follow standards. The whole point of usenet is to NOT need to do these things!
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[snip]
: > Explain why we should need software with certain feature : > sets to reinterpret something so you don't have to : > follow standards. The whole point of usenet is to NOT : > need to do these things!
I don't understand why you need *software* (other than any standard newsreader) to interpret what you're reading on the screen. I type words, you read them - where does software come into it..? You can see perfectly well which parts of the message I am quoting.
I ask again - what is *software* doing with my quote marks that upsets you so much..?
Ivor
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My software allows me to use virtually *anything*. It could be a single character, or a string of characters.
Incidentally, it doesn't appear that you software is using ":". It is using ": ". The added space isn't as bad as the non-standard ':', but it's a waste of a precious column, and leads to incorrectly wrapped lines with many readers.

I thought you knew all about this???
Specifically my software is the gnus package running under XEmacs. I have it configured to display each level of quoted text with a distinct font face. In this case the significant difference is just the color of the text.
It can also do things like reformat quoted text, and will maintain the appropriate quote prefix. The paragraph quoted above, with your ':' quotes, ends up like this if it is reformatted:
>: > So just how many different possible quote >characters is : > my software supposed to work for? >Idiots who want to : > use a non-standard quote >character can choose from 100 : > or so...
If it had used standard quotes, it could be reformatted to look like this:
>> > So just how many different possible quote >> > characters is my software supposed to work for? >> > Idiots who want to use a non-standard quote >> > character can choose from 100 or so...
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Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) snipped-for-privacy@apaflo.com
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wrote:
: >>Explain again what exactly your *software* (as opposed : >>to your eyes) does with quote marks anyway..? : > : > I thought you knew all about this??? : > : > Specifically my software is the gnus package running : > under XEmacs. I have it configured to display each : > level of quoted text with a distinct font face. In this : > case the significant difference is just the color of the : > text. : > : > It can also do things like reformat quoted text, and : > will maintain the appropriate quote prefix. The : > paragraph quoted above, with your ':' quotes, ends up : > like this if it is reformatted: : > : > >: > So just how many different possible quote : > >characters is : > my software supposed to work for? : > >Idiots who want to : > use a non-standard quote : > >character can choose from 100 : > or so... : > : > If it had used standard quotes, it could be : > reformatted to look like this: : > : > >> > So just how many different possible quote : > >> > characters is my software supposed to work for? : > >> > Idiots who want to use a non-standard quote : > >> > character can choose from 100 or so...
Ok, fine. But you are over-complicating things IMHO. Why do you need different fonts for different levels of quotes..? The beauty of Usenet to me is it is (theoretically at any rate) in *plain ASCII text* so all this mucking about with fonts, colours or whatever that people do on the web is, or so I thought, mercifully absent.
Seems I was wrong. But I'm not changing my quote marks. Live with it or plonk me, it's all the same to me.
Ivor
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