NEC 2005 Handbook

Irrelevant.

Nehmo is offering the NEC *handbook*. The *handbook* is *NOT* the standard. It includes far more than just the NEC code.

Ed

If it's free then I should be able to ask the NEC for it, or whoever publishes it and they'll just hand it to me, right?

- ehsjr -

- Nehmo ? If you want to be technical, I just provided a hash of a pdf of the handbook, something which until now nobody has claimed a copyright to. But hereby do so now. I might as well. You have my permission to copy it.

The Veeck decisions

There is a fundamental principle here: Someone under the command of a law should be able to freely access the law, so he or she can find out what the command is. You don?t agree with that?

What country are you claiming your copyright in?

I assume this thread has already made it to nfpa. most publishers and large companies scan the net for references to their work. I'm looking forward to how this turns out, there's a lot of stuff i'd like to have copies of, but can't afford.

At least i can still listen to "free" music on fm radio without the ire of the riaa. A professional group I used to have great respect for.

At some point we'll all be paying Encarta for anything produced, published, or performed that we read on the 'net.

-larry / dallas

Nehmo, I've found

Worked for me.

- rj -

- Nehmo - For URLs, I use

Not exactly, if your local authority adopts it by reference or statement, then it is up to your local authority to make it available, not the NFPA.

Many such local authorities now do this by placing a copy in the public reading room, or library. You cannot necessarily check out such references (just like you can't take home the unabridged dictionary), but you can read it there all day long if you wish. Or most libraries can make copies of specific pages for a small fee to cover their costs.

Meets the law as far as Veeck goes, and does *not* allow unlimited public distribution.

daestrom

Exactly.

However, the NEC 2005 Handbook* is not adopted, or incorporated as law by any jurisdiction I'm aware of. So there is NO requirement to make it available to the public, library copy or not.

You just change things around to try to force fit a square peg into a round hole. Here are your words from 10/30 at 1:48 : "In any case, if you want a free copy of the Handbook, you now should know how to get it." Your intent is absolutely clear, and it is equally clear that it violates copyright.

Wrong. The NEC Handbook has not been adopted anywhere, is not of itself a standard and is copyright protected. Veeck does not apply.

Yes - you are stealing. The work that you are making available to others has nothing to do with the drivel below.

Someone under the command of a

That is *NOT* the issue. The issue is the illegal violation of a copyright for a work that has nothing to do with Veeck; a work that is not a standard; a work that cannot be adopted as law.

Ed

The handbook is not adopted as law.

- daestrom -

- Paul Hovnanian P.E. -

- Nehmo - Veeck was an old guy in Texas who had a web site where he posted some codes. Southern Building Code Congress International, an organization that sells codes, sent him a Cease and Desist. Veeck, with no money behind him, preemptively asked the courts for a declaratory judgment. The Federal Fifth Circuit agreed with Veeck in that copyrights on works that become law aren?t enforceable. The Supreme Court of the United States declined to review the case; thus, the decision stands for the Fifth circuit. It?s not controlling in any other circuit, however, it has persuasive value in those places.

The Veeck decisions are summarized on the site:

There are numerous other decisions regarding the right to have access to the law.

Now the library issue. I can testify that the NEC was _not_ available in the Kansas City public libraries, seven years ago when I tried to look at a copy. It was reportedly available at DCA, a municipal office, but I actually ended up getting what I wanted from a private party. I don?t know what the current situation is. But I imagine, if a library did have a book or disk with the NEC, it would be the handbook.

- Paul Hovnanian P.E. -

- Nehmo - NFPA writes the code and the handbook, which has annotations and pictures (see for yourself). Without which the code would be impossible to understand. It?s hard enough as it is. It could easily be argued that the handbook is an extension of the code. But fortunately, I don?t need to argue that for the public to have access. Nowadays, anybody who wants can download a copy.

- Nehmo ?

- ehsjr -

- Nehmo ? Of course I want people who want it to get copy of the NEC handbook [1]. I don?t recognize the copyright either. And I have further views on the subject. But again, in this instance, I simply posted a brief hash of a pdf. Posting ed2k links is not considered to be violating copyrights. If you have a case or a law that says otherwise, I challenge you to cite it.

Even websites that are extremely sensitive to copyright trouble allow ed2k links. Afterdawn

Anyway, you don?t like people getting the handbook, don?t like me posting the link, you accuse me of writing drivel, etc. So those who agrees with you can ignore the link.

But according to that reasoning it would be the responsibility of the permitting office (where it became the force of law) to supply it to you by arrangement with the copyright holder. The NEC was written as a reference by a private company that expended money and resouces to produce it and holds the copyright to their work. I don't see where they are under any obligation to supply it to you for free.

Another good example of idiot judges needing to get thrown out on their asses.

NFPA is a scam. They have hundreds of standards, which comprise thousands of dollars worth of books. If you wanted the law concerning something as simple as the smoke detector in your bedroom you would need to buy NFPA70, NFPA72, NFPA101 and NFPA1 to get all the rules. They do not all appear in any of one the books. It is strange to me that the states will write most of the building code into statute which is treely available but they simply adopt various NFPA standards.

If you are one of the directors of NFPA, sitting on your yacht, that is a distinction without a difference. This thing is a perpetual motion money machine. Every time the local government adopts a standard that insures the sale of many tens of thousands of overpriced books. The standards themselves interlock with other standards requiring buying more books.

- Nehmo ?

- George -

- Nehmo ? Assuming the copyright was valid and that such things can be copyrighted?

True, it is irresponsible for a state to adopt a law without providing for the public to have access to it. But the deed is done. And since NFPA allowed this adoption, indeed, encouraged it, NFPA can?t complain now.

- George -

reference by a private company

- Nehmo ? I don?t have the time nor motivation to adequately research the subject, but just how ?private? is NFPA? It?s been intertwined with government for a long time.

I have one more item to add to this subject.