On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:45:13 -0700, N7RX put forth the notion that...
That's pretty typical for subpanels nowadays. They sell the ground bus
bar separately. That wouldn't even be all that bad, except that you
usually don't realize it until you get the panel home, unless you've
been down that road before.
Its hard to fathom some of these electrical vendors... you
can read their help wanted ads and get a clue though...'must
have at LEAST 1 year experience.. and a PE...and be a CC++
programmer, be willing to travel, have experience in a power
coat shop, and be able to manage large teams of people $12
to $15 /hr.
I just went through some of that on Monster.com top level
engineering rates under 100k... a union plumber makes 125k
so you get a breaker box with no ground bus.
In that case you will have to bring all the grounds to a size
00 copper lug... screw the lug to the box, then attach the
supply ground to the lug.
No he just has to go back to the store and buy the ground bar kit but I agree
it is a pain in the ass.
It's like looking for C batteries on Christmas day because the GI Jim action
Humvee didn't have THEM in the box.
In my experience this is normal for panels rated as "service equipment".
There should be an screw and an a hole in the neutral bar with threads in
the can. Install the screw and you now have an grounded neutral bar just
like you would for an service.
If your application is an sub panel then you need to pony up for the ground
I worked for an OEM for quite a while. It is all up to the marketing/bean
counters, no one wants to be a dollar more for the product. Just what the
world needs is marketing/ bean counters running electrical manufactures.
Sorry I digress
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com ).
it goes of course in practice light years worse.
IBM for instance hired a magna cum laude Harvard engineering
grad (with 2 years experience ) to cut costs on its new RISC
chip plant (1990) in Burlington Vt. these are the most
sophisticated HVAC systems in the world, they have to keep
room temps within a tenth of a degree and humidity within 5%
of target...and particle counts to one in a cubic foot (under
.12 microns in diameter) very complex engineering involved.
this guy and some twit from johnson controls, decided they
could delete about half of the air tempering and mixing
components (10 million dollars in hardware) and just 'use
johhnson controls humidistats' instead... ones mind
The contracted engineering firm spoke up in vain, no guts
apparently, the experienced IBM engineers who should surely
have known better deferred to this twit and the Harvard Magnus
and so the plant was built .... 250 million dollar semi condu
ctor fab... with 10 million dollars worth of integral crucial
components missing and no room to retrofit them.
the plant failed on start up... a complete waste.
that sent IBM stock to the pits...cost of the damages in the
hundreds of billions as IBM lost its lead in chip technology
..... accordingly I wouldnt be surprised if IBM or whoever
started shipping 4800vac line voltage key boards, and required
wrist grounding straps... these days you have to look out for
I saw a help wanted ad the other day paraphrased '... HVAC/
Refrigeration engineer, must understand and be able to program
digital controls systems, do all load calcuations, costing,
CAD drawings, options analysis, COBOL, CC++, and be able to
do exel spread sheets, MS word, and boot a computer... MUST
have at least a Bachelors of Science degree in mechancial
engineering, or a degree in computer science, or personnel
management...and be able to manage many projects at one
time... $27/hr... submit all college records, and job
history from first job forward and why you were no longer with
.... these guys are screening for lying morons.
Its not getting better with time either...when the 50
million baby boomers (experienced talent) ALL retire over the
next 4 years... it will exciting...if your nerves hold out.
and dont plan on getting hired at top dollar because of your
actual skills either... if you do CC++ and cobol and if
'booting a computer' doesnt appear verbatim on your resume...
you will not get hired.
if you do get hired then you get to deal with these folks in
I might go into plumbing so I can gloat when their toilets
back up and tell em... Press 1 if you would like to schedule
an appointment with a salesman..Press 2 if your toilet is
backflowed into the rest of the house..Press 3 if you would
like to schedule a survey of your problem press 4 if cannot
be home between the hours of 2 and 4 Press 6 if you are in
govt or the software business.
The guy presses 6... he is in a rage now. Press 1 if you
have reached this message in error, Press 2 if you need to be
returned to the original menu, Press 3 if the shit is not up
to your ears yet.
the guy presses 3 (he is now incoherent and blubbering)...
Press 1 if your toilet is made by Acme... Press 2 if your
toilet is made by Turdbreath and Hog. Press 3 if your toilet
is mostly white with just a small bit of crusty stuff under
the rim.... Press 4 if you wigh to speak to an operator
the guy presses 4... he has chest pains now, and has taken a
valium.. Press 1 if you would like to wait for the operator,
Press 2 if you would like a call back sometime within the
current millenium, Press 3 of you wish your call to be
the guy presses 3 ( he is read to kill now).... Press 1
if you would like to get into our automated telephone
Finally... its the next day... 3pm after spending all day
getting past the voice mail disaster.
Plumbing company owner comes on the line..Hello, I understand
that you are in the IT business or work for the govt? Is
that correct? guy says yes.... Plumbing shop owner...'and
yer toilet is backed up and running all over the house?'
hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah... (gasp) rolls on floor.
We would send a man out but are tied up trying to get our
computer to work, and the tax scum off our ass... you will
just have to swim for it.... (caugh, gasp chokes...thumps
The utterly *toasted
| I got this inexpensive little Siemens subpanel and found that is has no bus
| bar for the ground connections - just one for neutral and, obviously the hot
| Why is this? When would you use a multi-position subpanel without a
Add another bus bar. Be sure the one used for neutral is isolated from
the box itself since is it a current carrying conductor that needs to be
kept isolated from the ground (to which the box is attached) in a subpanel.
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.