No bus bar?

I got this inexpensive little Siemens subpanel and found that is has no bus bar for the ground connections - just one for neutral and, obviously the hot
lugs.
Why is this? When would you use a multi-position subpanel without a groundbar?
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On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:45:13 -0700, N7RX put forth the notion that...

That's pretty typical for subpanels nowadays. They sell the ground bus bar separately. That wouldn't even be all that bad, except that you usually don't realize it until you get the panel home, unless you've been down that road before.
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that is has no bus

obviously the hot

without a

Its hard to fathom some of these electrical vendors... you can read their help wanted ads and get a clue though...'must have at LEAST 1 year experience.. and a PE...and be a CC++ programmer, be willing to travel, have experience in a power coat shop, and be able to manage large teams of people $12 to $15 /hr.
I just went through some of that on Monster.com top level engineering rates under 100k... a union plumber makes 125k
so you get a breaker box with no ground bus.
In that case you will have to bring all the grounds to a size 00 copper lug... screw the lug to the box, then attach the supply ground to the lug.
Phil Scott

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No he just has to go back to the store and buy the ground bar kit but I agree it is a pain in the ass. It's like looking for C batteries on Christmas day because the GI Jim action Humvee didn't have THEM in the box.
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perhaps its because it sold as service equipment where you are permitted to use the neutral bar as a ground.
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bus
hot
In my experience this is normal for panels rated as "service equipment". There should be an screw and an a hole in the neutral bar with threads in the can. Install the screw and you now have an grounded neutral bar just like you would for an service. If your application is an sub panel then you need to pony up for the ground bar.
I worked for an OEM for quite a while. It is all up to the marketing/bean counters, no one wants to be a dollar more for the product. Just what the world needs is marketing/ bean counters running electrical manufactures.
Sorry I digress
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that is has no

obviously the

without a

equipment".
with threads in

neutral bar just

for the ground

marketing/bean
Just what the

manufactures.
it goes of course in practice light years worse.
IBM for instance hired a magna cum laude Harvard engineering grad (with 2 years experience ) to cut costs on its new RISC chip plant (1990) in Burlington Vt. these are the most sophisticated HVAC systems in the world, they have to keep room temps within a tenth of a degree and humidity within 5% of target...and particle counts to one in a cubic foot (under .12 microns in diameter) very complex engineering involved.
this guy and some twit from johnson controls, decided they could delete about half of the air tempering and mixing components (10 million dollars in hardware) and just 'use johhnson controls humidistats' instead... ones mind boggeled...
The contracted engineering firm spoke up in vain, no guts apparently, the experienced IBM engineers who should surely have known better deferred to this twit and the Harvard Magnus and so the plant was built .... 250 million dollar semi condu ctor fab... with 10 million dollars worth of integral crucial components missing and no room to retrofit them.
the plant failed on start up... a complete waste.
that sent IBM stock to the pits...cost of the damages in the hundreds of billions as IBM lost its lead in chip technology world wide.
..... accordingly I wouldnt be surprised if IBM or whoever started shipping 4800vac line voltage key boards, and required wrist grounding straps... these days you have to look out for yourself....
I saw a help wanted ad the other day paraphrased '... HVAC/ Refrigeration engineer, must understand and be able to program digital controls systems, do all load calcuations, costing, CAD drawings, options analysis, COBOL, CC++, and be able to do exel spread sheets, MS word, and boot a computer... MUST have at least a Bachelors of Science degree in mechancial engineering, or a degree in computer science, or personnel management...and be able to manage many projects at one time... $27/hr... submit all college records, and job history from first job forward and why you were no longer with that company"
.... these guys are screening for lying morons.
Its not getting better with time either...when the 50 million baby boomers (experienced talent) ALL retire over the next 4 years... it will exciting...if your nerves hold out.
and dont plan on getting hired at top dollar because of your actual skills either... if you do CC++ and cobol and if 'booting a computer' doesnt appear verbatim on your resume... you will not get hired.
if you do get hired then you get to deal with these folks in managment.
I might go into plumbing so I can gloat when their toilets back up and tell em... Press 1 if you would like to schedule an appointment with a salesman..Press 2 if your toilet is backflowed into the rest of the house..Press 3 if you would like to schedule a survey of your problem press 4 if cannot be home between the hours of 2 and 4 Press 6 if you are in govt or the software business.
The guy presses 6... he is in a rage now. Press 1 if you have reached this message in error, Press 2 if you need to be returned to the original menu, Press 3 if the shit is not up to your ears yet.
the guy presses 3 (he is now incoherent and blubbering)... Press 1 if your toilet is made by Acme... Press 2 if your toilet is made by Turdbreath and Hog. Press 3 if your toilet is mostly white with just a small bit of crusty stuff under the rim.... Press 4 if you wigh to speak to an operator
the guy presses 4... he has chest pains now, and has taken a valium.. Press 1 if you would like to wait for the operator, Press 2 if you would like a call back sometime within the current millenium, Press 3 of you wish your call to be transfered.
the guy presses 3 ( he is read to kill now).... Press 1 if you would like to get into our automated telephone directory...
Finally... its the next day... 3pm after spending all day getting past the voice mail disaster.
Plumbing company owner comes on the line..Hello, I understand that you are in the IT business or work for the govt? Is that correct? guy says yes.... Plumbing shop owner...'and yer toilet is backed up and running all over the house?'
hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah... (gasp) rolls on floor.
We would send a man out but are tied up trying to get our computer to work, and the tax scum off our ass... you will just have to swim for it.... (caugh, gasp chokes...thumps desk..hangs up)
Justice.
The utterly *toasted Phil Scott

10/8/2004
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| I got this inexpensive little Siemens subpanel and found that is has no bus | bar for the ground connections - just one for neutral and, obviously the hot | lugs. | | Why is this? When would you use a multi-position subpanel without a | groundbar?
Add another bus bar. Be sure the one used for neutral is isolated from the box itself since is it a current carrying conductor that needs to be kept isolated from the ground (to which the box is attached) in a subpanel.
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