Structured wiring: fiber optic or not?

It depends on the type of building, but most of the installations I see are mainly fibre within the building.

Our network here is fairly typical; from the main core switch we have copper to the servers in the same room, and 16 core multimode fibre, mainly OM-3 laser optimised now, out to the various comms rooms around the building; there is one of these at each end of each floor, blus a couple of additional ones, and a few more are being added. From the edge switches in these rooms it's copper out to the desktops, and to a few attional servers, telephone system etc. We've also got fibre through the underground car park to another building; this is OM-1 fibre, and just within distance for it. From that building we have copper out to some temporary 'hut' type buildings in what used to be its car park.

To another building just across a road from the main one where we rent some office space we have two 100 Mb laser links on the roof. Until recently we had a wireless bridge feeding one PC in a 'shed' on a roof. We also have a 1Gb fibre link to another site, about 2-3 km away which we are using for about 3 years during major refurbishment of our main building, but this link is not ours; it;s a service which we buy from BT. Obviously this link is single mode fibre, but it terminates on a NTE box at each end, into which we plug our own multi mode fibre. BT monitor this line via an ISDN connection at one end. A similar fibre link, but at 100 Mb provides our Internet connection; in this case the user's connection on the NTE box is copper. Within the building on the end of the 1 Gb link is all copper, because we are using the existing, terrible, cabling that was in that building; for the short time involved it wasn't worth having the whole building re- cabled, but many of the lines are over-length for copper, most of the socket modules on the ends are poor quality, and there is only one strand of Cat. 5 run to most of the cabinet positions around the building. I we were going to use this building for longer it would have been re-cabled with fibre.

I think OM-1 is 220m with Gigait, 1000 base SX. OM-3 laser optimised fibre will do 10 Gb, 10G base SR, at several hundred metres, I think it's 300 m.

The longer wavelength optics normally used with single mode fibre are significantly more expensive. It is possible to run 1000 base LX over OM-1 and OM-2 multimode fiber using special mode conditioning patch cords, but you'd probably only do this if you already had existing older fibre installed.

As for connectors, ST were the most common at one time, but later equipment tended to be SC. In more recent times the smaller LC connector has become very common, and is probably the most popular. It is also the recommend standard for use with OM-3 fibre. We've found all of these connector types to be reliable, and MTRJ to be very unreliable.

What I wrote there wasn't very clear. When I wrote that there are comms rooms at each end of the building I didn't mean actually *at* the ends, but rather in the East and West parts of the building. our building is long, and a strange shape. It's not always possible to take cables by a very direct route, e.g. where you need to go up or down through the building have to get them to a service riser where you can run them. Many of our fibre runs within the main building are over 100 m, and some over twice that. Some of them also run through electrically noisy areas with heavy machinery. Other than when used with MTRJ connectors, we've found fibre to be very reliable, more so than copper. I wouldn't run it to the desktop though, as some propose.

none of this matters.

nobody is going to be hooking up fiber devices in their home, no matter what's in the walls already.

You're an idiot.

I have a former boss that lives in WV now, and he re-built his entire home from the ground up, and installed fiber, coax, Cat6, etc. into his home. He does use it.

Your "mo matter what" remark proves that you do not know what the f*ck you are talking about, boy.

I doubt a householder will ever need to connect multiple servers via anything to his multitude of PCs around the building.

Yup, except these are used for about 30km distances, high powered units. The

You must have less than 100 PCs.

A few do, mainly those who do development work at home, though the need for this has been reduced by virtual hardware. I know two people who have multiple servers at home. I can see no reason why anybody would need fibre at home, other than possibly for testing or training purposes.

I was replying to James's suggestion that fibre is no longer installed for purely internal connections within buildings, other than in special circumstances; it certainly is, at least in larger buildings.

A few less than 100. If you counted CPUs I might be close.

Cripes even my thermostats talk on a RS485 bus but not Ethernet so no router yet...LOL

Josepi wrote:

I learned early in my fibre job career that fibre optics are only required where copper limits the length of cable due to bandwidth usage.

OTOH: I have learned in electrical high tension stations it can eliminate some of the ground gradient problems with copper commuication buses during high current electrical fault conditions.

I was replying to James's suggestion that fibre is no longer installed for purely internal connections within buildings, other than in special circumstances; it certainly is, at least in larger buildings

I'm not talking about spare parts or PIC chips. I'm talking about desktops, laptops, and multimedia computers.

Can you use 100 SVGA CRT monitors? I could give you that many.

You were the idiot that was dumb enough to collect them.

You call me a troll, yet you converse with a top posting dolt that ignores folks telling him to learn how to post to Usenet properly.

Yeah, Mich, yer a real Usenet guru... not.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they become valuable collectibles at some point, they're getting scrapped so quickly that sooner or later they'll become rare. I'd have laughed if someone told me that a few years ago but things are changing. Something common as dirt is worthless and most of them get thrown away, then down the road people who remember them get nostalgic and by that point most of them are gone.

I've seen several 486 PC systems fetch $250-$350 on ebay recently, actual sales, not just sky high opening bids. I threw out several a number of years ago when they were less than worthless and apparently so did everyone else. An original PC/XT or AT with a matching monitor will get at least a hundred bucks, often more. Apple II systems that I saw go for a few dollars a pallet load at school auctions will now bring hundreds each in working condition.

I would personally pay up to $100 for a decent condition IBM 5154 EGA monitor for my own collection, but they don't come up often and when they do they normally fetch upwards of $200.

The same thing happened with tube audio gear. That stuff was getting pitched left and right in the 60s and 70s, now virtually tube audio gear is worth something, with certain items fetching small fortunes.

Only certain models.

Like, I have a Ball monochrome Hercules vector graphic display that is still in the box. That would be worth something.

Or like the top of the line Viewsonic fine line, high bandwidth display that only the Mac nuts can claim to top.

I have both. I also have a 10MB Tandon original HD. That will only be worth something a few minutes after I die.

Bullshit. Not without some defining feature. Like the Sony tube flat screen era. It also has to be max 0.25 dot pitch. Any bigger and they are a dime a dozen.

I have the last huge TV (one of them) the Toshiba HD SD combo set at

That isn't the biggest, but that is one huge scan area.

I should spec my old machines out and put them up. I even have an old EISA 486 DX screamer.

I didn't. I think I still have my first machine (PC). I wish I still had my first computer (a pair of Atari 800s).

My friend's PC XT had no HD, nor did it have a detachable display. It was integrated into the base/computer chassis. Itwas an IBM product.

Yeah. I saw some mainframe stuff that gets sold for scrap weight prices. There were some NICE air handling systems in those things, dangit.

Sad too. A used thumb mouse from Logitech goes for $45, and the damned things are always on their last legs (the switches go out).

None of the new models are done right. They should bring back the old design as a gaming mouse, which is why the old one is so popular.

Yes, but they are hugely overpriced, and over hyped as being 'better' when they are not. That fad will pass too.

Those old baby finger sized tubes would be cool to see again though... :-) Don;t know if you are familiar with those.

Most of the ones I refer to have CPU's. Even fairly simple tasks use a CPU these days. My thermostats have about 500 settings each alone, plus the central mixer control they talk to via comm bus...LOL

House control logic system, alternative energy system control and monitoring and it's slave CPU that control's the grid co-gen power system. Media player PC system, even my TV has a CPU with firmware I upgrade, CPU sewing machines and control CPU for them. Not to mention the CPU based SCADA systems I run for analogue monitoring and control of functions in my workshop shed, from the house (1200 baud 4W modem...LOL). The list goes on and on these days.

I was just discussing, with the wife, tonight how movies are so dated, now by the CRT monitors used. What was high-tech, not ten years ago looks silly in the cops and sci-fi shows. Meanwhile they are so careful not to mention dates in most movies...LOL My, how fast things change.

Can you use 100 SVGA CRT monitors? I could give you that many.

Josepi wrote:

I have a 37" glass tube Sony that works fine for Wii games.

Try to stay on topic and avoid your posting style ignorance. It's a way-too-obvious troll indicator and gets you into so many kill-filters very quickly. Perhaps look into a proper newsreader that can use more up-to-date posting styles. Forte Agent 4.1 seems to be pretty antiquated when not used for binary software piracy. Perhaps you haven't set it up correctly and it is still attempting to sort out the confusion with right caret characters on attachment reference text.

You may notice how most readers thread the posts and the previous text can be referenced by going back a line? Many site online can teach you this by googling "beginning Usenet posting"

Hope this helps.

I test them and give them away. I am retirement age, but now 100% disabled so it's a hobby. I keep equipment out of a landfill, and help people with used computer parts.

I still prefer a CRT type monitor. They cause me less eye strain. I'm using a 17" emachines CRT monitor right now. I really miss my 22" HP CRT monitor. It had 1536 * 2048 resolution.

I was a broadcast engineer, and never liked CCD cameras or LCD monitors for studio use.

I love that about old sci-fi movies. It's fun to see what was considered futuristic at the time. Of course if a technology hasn't been thought of yet, it's pretty hard to accurately portray it in a movie!

It's amazing how fast things progress. If someone 10 years ago had told me that by now you'd be able to buy a 2 Terabyte 3.5" hard drive for ~$100 I'd have thought they were on drugs. The first hard drive I bought was 340MB and cost around $400, and that seemed like a bargain at the time.